Cliches & Tropes of Ranma fanon

[SpaceKnight of Chaos]

Afterwards; Ranma still had her hair in a ponytail when she and Genma visited the village- she started tying her hair into her trademark pigtail after eating the hair-growth porridge.

[camk4evr]

Maybe I'm missunderstanding something, but I thought you where an adult at 20 years old in Japan.

Where I live(U.S.A. IL) you start being viewed as an adult at age 18, and then get full adult rights at 21.

In many States, and other countries, the parent isn't always responsible for the actions of the child no matter the age of the child. Which, of course, is why we have jeuvenile detention centres.

[Ezvir]

I say Im starving after missing lunch, that does not mean I am literally starving.

And he doesn't even say "I'm starving" in the Japanese version, he just says he is hungry in an emphatic way.

[FOG3]

It is not as cut and dry as you make it seem. Yes, Ranma did eat a two dumplings(maybe three), and a peace of corn. Ranma had thought the prize was a free buffet, and had not eaten in some time. He out right states he is starving while hiking to the village.

3 weeks is the rule of thumb, and I assure you that she has plenty of fat on her. For crying out loud you have to go 3 days without food before fasting actually begins to do something beneficial. It's not exactly end of the world to go without food for extended periods.

That's before you add in the fact that she is supposed to live in a civilized society, which only functions because people have self control. Threatening that status quo in principle is enough. All this argues is a lack of attention to detail on Ranma's part. You actually going to admit that kind of failing on his part, Zwzn or is that going to magically disapear when it's time to advocate God Ranma, again?

When Ranma realized things where not as he thought he stopped eating at which point Shampoo destroyed what was likely well more then 90% of her prize.

So what? The purpose of law is maintain order. "Oh I'll put it back" doesn't exactly work once law enforcement enters the picture. Organizationally I expect Shampoo is part of what passes for local law enforcement, especially as champion.

How does the idea "I'll humiliate local law enforcement and they'll just let me go" even remotely make sense? Especially when you crank up the Us vs Them by the perpetrator being an out and out foreigner. If the Joketsu were half as devious as they are usually considered to be, Ranma would have simply been offered tweaked food of one variety or another and been taken out that way.

The actual chase is more like harassment while screwing with their heads. The real question is what would have happened if Ranma had, had a spine instead. A know at least one author opted for it being purely a gut check, and that would result in you being offered the chance to enter their ranks if you passed. A good solution that fits the evidence and tone, by my book anyway.

[Necavit]

Dont know how it works where you live.

But here you break the law at 16, you pay for it.

The fact that he is not an adult is mitigating, but he still broke the law. And Im with FOG3, it looks like he missed a few meals, not on the edge of starvation.

Theres a way to make this quick and clean

All I want you to say, is that Ranma did wrong in stealing the food.

Just that. I feel your trying to clear him of any wrong doing by pulling any excuse you can find.

You can add all the mitigating circumstances you want, just say it was wrong for him to steal the food.

[Zwzn]

3 weeks is the rule of thumb, and I assure you that she has plenty of fat on her. For crying out loud you have to go 3 days without food before fasting actually begins to do something beneficial. It's not exactly end of the world to go without food for extended periods.

I take it you have never suffered hunger pains, light headedness, and other not fun stuff from just eating very little, or suffered from skipping a meal, and then doing strenuous exercise. Trust me, I've done that, and to put it mildly, it's not fun. On top of that Genma makes a point to make sure Ranma does not eat well, and Ranma is very thin. Ranma likely does not have much if any wieght to lose.

That's before you add in the fact that she is supposed to live in a civilized society, which only functions because people have self control. Threatening that status quo in principle is enough.

Are you talking about Shampoo? The girl who beats the crap out of people just because you look like someone who crossed her. The girl who thinks having to hunt down and kill someone is no big deal. The girl who goes to foreign lands, and atemps to kill people just because they don't tell her what she wants to hear. Even if Shampoo comes from a civilized society she is not very civilized or civil, nor does she care about law and order. She is a might makes right type, and she enforces her laws only when she feels like it.

Are you talking about Ranma? The person who was raised by a thief. The person who seems to live all his life looking in on civilized society. The person who never really had any friends. The person who tries to make amends when he does someone wrong(at least when found out). The person who tries to work things out in a way that will at least leave everyone a little satisfied. Ranma might not come from civilized society, but he behaves in a more civil manner.

All this argues is a lack of attention to detail on Ranma's part. You actually going to admit that kind of failing on his part, Zwzn or is that going to magically disapear when it's time to advocate God Ranma, again?

Am I not the person who listed what Ranma ate? Ranma made a stupid mistake, but the kiss of death was not punishment for the theft. The engagememnt to Shampoo is Shampoo's fualt because she knowingly put herself in a position to have the outsider laws take effect.

So what? The purpose of law is maintain order. "Oh I'll put it back" doesn't exactly work once law enforcement enters the picture. Organizationally I expect Shampoo is part of what passes for local law enforcement, especially as champion.

What makes you think a cold blooded murderous thug like Shampoo is law enforcement? She never semed to really care about laws unless it helped her in some way to me.

How does the idea "I'll humiliate local law enforcement and they'll just let me go" even remotely make sense? Especially when you crank up the Us vs Them by the perpetrator being an out and out foreigner. If the Joketsu were half as devious as they are usually considered to be, Ranma would have simply been offered tweaked food of one variety or another and been taken out that way.

I would love to know why you think Shampoo is some sort of local law enforcement.

It's more like you walk into a store eat a little of something you think is a free sample, accidently insulting the owner, and then realize you have no way to pay after realizing it wasn't a free sample. Then you try to work out a way to pay for what you ate and make amends, but the owner is angry, and decides that you are either going to get beaten bloody, and if that doesn't work he will hunt you down and kill you, but no one tells you until after you avoid the beating.

The actual chase is more like harassment while screwing with their heads. The real question is what would have happened if Ranma had, had a spine instead. A know at least one author opted for it being purely a gut check, and that would result in you being offered the chance to enter their ranks if you passed. A good solution that fits the evidence and tone, by my book anyway.

Since when is atempted murder considered just harassment? Shampoo's problem with killing is not that she does not try to kill, but that some outside force stops her. If Ranma had stayed he would have had to fight Shampoo to the death, or really close if someone from her village did not stop Shampoo.

Dont know how it works where you live.

But here you break the law at 16, you pay for it.

From personal experience if you make a mistake no matter how stupid, and make amends you will have no problem.

I've mistaken some fudge at a candy store for free samples. The owner had at times put out samples in a similar fashion that the fudge on display, and when I realized my mistake I worked things out with the owner not unlike what Ranma tried to do. The difference was that the shop owner was a really nice guy, and not a blood thirsty thug like Shampoo.

All I want you to say, is that Ranma did wrong in stealing the food.

The problem is Ranma didn't try to steal the food. Ranma just made a stupid mistake, and got the kiss of death because he tried to pay for the food that Shampoo did not care about. The kiss of death is not a punishment for theft.

Just that. I feel your trying to clear him of any wrong doing by pulling any excuse you can find.

You can add all the mitigating circumstances you want, just say it was wrong for him to steal the food.

Ranma has been known to steal food, but Shampoo's prize is not one of those times. If Ranma even tried to steal Shampoo's prize why did he try to work out a way to pay her?

[Necavit]

Not bad, at least I got you to admit he does steal food.

Also in all fairness the kiss of death wasnt for the act of theft. Its done when a woman beats an amazaon.

As for the final part... Ok fair compromise, Ranma is not a theif here, just a moron. But from your own admission he is not beyond petty theft of food, but in this case hes just being stupid.

Fair enough.

Though your still avoiding admission that hes deserves some blame for the Shamp thing... I mean stupidty and ignorance are no excuse for eating the food...

And Genma was just as ignorant and stupid... so I can really see why he should take full blame like you suggest. Ranma's a big boy, he can think for himself.

Seems like a pretty open and close case that they are both at fault for inciting Shmap's wrath.

[three headed dog]

I was chatting with someone and they have a theory about Ranma taking the food that time. His theory was that Ranma and Genma came from behind the table (so they didn't see the sign) and assumed that the table with food was a buffet set-up for the people watching the battles. His theory was based on Chinese culture about how villages in China would set up tables of food for the audience at village events. Food is of central importance to Chinese culture and a common greeting is ‘Have you eaten?’. Chinese culture considers it impolite to meet someone and not ask him/her to eat: he/she may be hungry!

He went further to explain how he doesn't really consider the amazons to be Chinese since that village is almost as old as the civilization of China. The area they live in used to belong to Tibet. Their actions are not like the Chinese. Figures that it is an autonomous nation with in China with it's own culture and laws. Wikipedia on autonomous areas of china: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomous_areas_of_China

[Zwzn]

Though your still avoiding admission that hes deserves some blame for the Shamp thing... I mean stupidty and ignorance are no excuse for eating the food...

First off, Ranma and Genma appeared to be suffering from lack of food. Secondly, it is not hard to believe they came from an angle that one can not see the sign. It looks like they may have come from behind the prize.

Ranma was not trying to get off scott free, and by trying to work things out admiting he made a mistke. Ranma was trying to work things out in a way that would be quick and painless for all parties in all the English translations I have seen. Viz Vol.3 Page: 111: "Then if I defeat you, you've got no problem, right?" Ranma thought when Shampoo agreed to the fight that there would be nothing to worry about after the fight. If Shampoo was a reasonable person there would have been no kiss of death.

Shampoo knowing her laws agreed to the fight, and no one bothered to inform Ranma of those laws until after the fact. Shampoo, the guide, nor anyone watching ever even hint of the out sider laws that apply to just one village, and maybe even only a small number of people who live in the village until after the fact. Shampoo lives in a village out in the middle of nowhere.

Shampoo knew she might have to give the kiss of death.

The one thing I do not hold Genma and Ranma rersponible for is knowing the laws of a single village in the middle of nowhere that they may have never planned to stop at in the first place, or even knew was there in the first place.

The kiss of mariage is Shampoo's fault because she went into a place where she had reason to believe the people there could at least give her a fight, and started attacking people at least seeming intent to kill.

And Genma was just as ignorant and stupid... so I can really see why he should take full blame like you suggest. Ranma's a big boy, he can think for himself.

Genma planned the trip, Genma is the leader, the only adult, and Genma is the master. By default it is Genma's job to deal with things that go wrong, and Ranma lacked degree of skill needed to work things out because of Genma.

Ranma is/was weak in diplomatic skills. Ranma is/was not a big boy when it comes to diplomacy.

Seems like a pretty open and close case that they are both at fault for inciting Shamap's wrath.

Just to be clear, the following question is not ment to be a joke or straw man.

Are you saying it was reasonable for Shampoo to want to kill Ranma because he made an honest mistake? Shampoo tried to kill Ranma even before the fight on the log.

[Tovath]

Zwzn I think that you are making some assumptions about Amazon law that we don't know enough to prove or disprove. We don't know anything about how their Law Enforcement works, for all we know the village champion could be the chief of police for them (And yes it would be a stupid law but humans have lived by stupider ones) We have no way of knowing.
The Kiss of death might just be a way of testing if a person is willing to take the consequences for their actions. There is after all no way of knowing if what Ranma is told about the kiss of death is true or not. It would not be the only time the Amazons didn't tell the whole truth.

[Drawde]

The Kiss of death might just be a way of testing if a person is willing to take the consequences for their actions.

It's possible, except we're never shown anything to the contrary of how it's described in canon. There's also the extremes Shampoo went to in order to kill Ranma, not the least of which is following "her" to Japan, and hiring male Ranma to help kill female Ranma.

Not to mention that such a test could easily end up with a dead amazon, depending on the one that the test is being applied to.

[Necavit]

Ignorance and hunger are no excuse for breaking the law.

I already said you can stack mitgating circumstances as much as ya want, thats not the point.

If you see food in some strange village do you immediatly pig out? Or ask your guide, hey can we eat that food? Ranma and Genma didnt care, they took what they wanted.

Yes Ranma took responsibility that what he did was wrong. So now would you please admit what Ranma did was wrong.

Oh and Im not buying its all Genma's fault. Legally Ranma is just as responsible.

As for your final question.

I dont know, she turned around to see someone pigging out on her prize. Different culture, different reactions.

Are you aiming at me saying Ranma did wrong, but Shampoo did more wrong? Sure Ill say that.

[Zwzn]

Zwzn I think that you are making some assumptions about Amazon law that we don't know enough to prove or disprove. We don't know anything about how their Law Enforcement works, for all we know the village champion could be the chief of police for them (And yes it would be a stupid law but humans have lived by stupider ones) We have no way of knowing.

Shampoo has been doing the hole I'm the law bit since before she ever met Ranma. Just look at the Link and Pink arc. There are people who clearly out rank Shampoo anyway. Nothing points to Shampoo being the judge, jury, and executioner even if she is some level of law enforcement for her village.

Even if you assume for little to no reason Shampoo is law enforcement that still does not excuse her attacking random people at the Tendo Dojo when she lost her temper.

As it stands what little we see of the area Shampoo lives in makes it seem lawless beyond what the local villages enforce on those who live in them. A very might makes right type place.

The Kiss of death might just be a way of testing if a person is willing to take the consequences for their actions. There is after all no way of knowing if what Ranma is told about the kiss of death is true or not. It would not be the only time the Amazons didn't tell the whole truth.

Nabiki reading from Shampoo's book of laws.

In the event that a woman warrior is defeated by an outsider...
... if her opponent is a woman...
she must give the kiss of death...
...and kill her!#

However...
...if her opponent is a man...
...she must make him her HUSBAND!#

The kiss of death is a death sentence for either the kisser or the kissy. It is not some sort of test.

[Zwzn]

Is there a reason you don't use quotes?

Ignorance and hunger are no excuse for breaking the law.

I already said you can stack mitgating circumstances as much as ya want, thats not the point.

If you see food in some strange village do you immediatly pig out? Or ask your guide, hey can we eat that food? Ranma and Genma didnt care, they took what they wanted.

Yes Ranma took responsibility that what he did was wrong. So now would you please admit what Ranma did was wrong.

There is nothing wrong with making a stupid mistake because of lack of food or water. You just don't think straight when hungery or thirsty.

You also seem to be forgeting that it is shown that many people Ranma ran into in China where very generous with food. The way Ranma was acting it seems almost like the villages he went to before hand put out tables of food for people to eat.

Oh and Im not buying its all Genma's fault. Legally Ranma is just as responsible.

Genma is the leader, and the leader is always reresponsible for what the people they lead do.

As for your final question.

I dont know, she turned around to see someone pigging out on her prize. Different culture, different reactions.

Shampoo saw a ponytailed girl holding some food, and trying to find out what she did wrong.

Shampoo saw the guide freaking out, and trying to explane things to the ponytailed girl.

Shampoo saw a panda pigging out.

Shampoo then attacked the girl seemingly with intent to kill without first trying to findout what was going on, and ignores the fact she lives near the cursed springs, and on top of that Shampoo attacked in such a way as to destroy her prize.

This sort of behavor is something we only see from people who have poor control over their emotions in Shampoo's culture.

Are you aiming at me saying Ranma did wrong, but Shampoo did more wrong? Sure Ill say that.

You kind of made it sound like Shampoo was not over reacting to Ranma mistake, and that it did not seem odd to you that Shampoo atempted to kill Ranma before finding out what was going on, and destroying her prize.

[Ezvir]

While the Viz translation of the passage Nabiki reads is as accurate as can be done and I don't see any way to improve on it it may not be quite as unambiguous as it sounds in English. The issue is with the word "beshi" which is (correctly) translated as "must". Theoretically "beshi" can can mean almost anything that's covered by the whole range of modal verbs in English, i. e. "can", "must", "will", "may"(=it is permissible to do) or "should" ("beshi" is a bit too strong for "might" and "could" IMO), at least in classical and literary Japanese. In modern Japanese it is usually restricted to "must", more or less. That particular passage is modern Japanese with classical/literary trappings. In texts translated from Chinese it often means "can" (particularly in translations from classical Chinese into classical Japanese) and Takahashi is certainly aware of that fact (whether she considered it when writing this passage is another question). So "must" is the most natural way to read it if you just take the Japanese text itself, but if you consider what Chinese text it is likely to be translated from "can" (+ "may" and "should") also seem possible. In the end the translator had to make some sort of choice and chose "must". I would have made the same choice. Nevertheless some ambiguity remains.