General Questions mk 2

[Jupiah]

For the guide being a moron... not explaining straight away that the springs are cursed (he babbles on about their tragic legend, when he should have opened up with something along the lines of "nobody use Jusenkyo to train anymore because it curse those who enter it"),

He did warn them that no one uses the training ground anymore and told them it was dangerous. It's not his fault they completely ignored him and didn't wait for him explain why they were dangerous.

failing to warn Ranma & Genma about the nature of the Joketsuzoku,

What aspect of 'Joketsuzoku nature' didn't he warn them of? That they punish people who steal their food? That's common sense, it's not the guides fault Genma and Ranma are both shameless food thieves. He should have warned them about the kiss of death, but he might of thought that they, like most people, would be smart enough not to antagonize a strange tribe of warriors.

failing to suggest that they change back into their real forms when they went to the Joketsuzoku village...

Why should they have changed back to their real forms? They were probably safer in their cursed forms - no Amazons who be tempted to challenge them to a marriage duel.

-Is willing to cut her date short and even takes Ranma to the Tendos on her bike to help Akane, then gives him the packet without receiving the kiss she wanted

What? Either the anime is a LOT different, or you have got some serious selective memory. First of all, she was stopping Ranma from helping Akane and forcing him to date her by blackmailing him with a 'cure' for his curse that she knew was fake. She didn't take him to the dojo on her bike, he was riding the bike, and when she realized where he was heading she tried to stop him. He only got away from her because Genma splashed her with water. She then worked together with the Destroyer to fight Ranma (heavily implying that she convinced him to attack the Tendo Dojo in the first place). She sure as heck didn't give him the packet, he took it from her by surprise. She then laughed about all the trouble she put Ranma through for a one-time cure with Cologne afterwards! That whole arc is, in my opinion, one of Shampoo's lowest points in the entire manga.

[FriendlyEL]

The anime version and the manga version of that story are two completely different ones. She was alot less of a pain on the anime one, and did ultimately let him go after a while.

Another point you forgot to mention there though, there was also the fact that she couldn't help but to keep reveling in how Akane wasn't going to be able to beat him, which could have been a very bad thing for Ranma as well. Last I remember she never even knew about the Dojo Destroyer in the Anime version.

Anyways, as to whether or not she loves Ranma, she does have very positive feelings for him. The contradictory jewel story shows she would not have been so determined to get him to marry her if she was only doing it for her rules.

But while she does at least have an infatuation with him, It comes across to me as a dysfunctional and confused affection. As Daniel mentioned it seems like all the girls don't love him as much as the idea of loving him. If she does love him in some way (which I will admit she seems to) she has a pretty whacked way of showing affection.

But to be fair frankly the other girls aren't all that much if any better.

[SpaceKnight of Chaos]

Yeah, I got that point a little wrong, it'd been a while since I'd seen that episode. However, the anime is very different to the manga version. This is how the anime episode goes:

It opens with Genma and Soun lecturing Akane & Ranma on how they are fiancees and should start acting like it, with the bored/disdainful kids trying to walk away and prompting the fathers to start begging them to listen/head them. Kasumi shows up and gives Soun a letter, a challenge notice from the Dojo Destroyer, and Ranma & Akane promptly start arguing again.

The next day. Shampoo shows up in gym and offers Ranma instant nannichuan if he goes on a date with her. Ranma, naturally, accepts, and doesn't hesitate when Akane distracts her father by telling him she can handle it herself, bounding away to the park after Akane cracks a concrete wall and badly hurts her right hand.

Ranma tries to make Shampoo give him the powdered spring straight away, but fails, even when he uses a paralysis powder bomb inside a bouquet to make off with her bag- which turns out to have a cat inside. While Shampoo was willing to believe Ranma's lies, she wasn't stupid enough to trust him.

At the Tendos, the dojo destroyer shows up, throwing the Tendo sign to Soun and fighting with Akane- he has absolutely no troubles with her and, while Akane gives it her all, it's evident that he doesn't find her any real challenge- her best attacks don't even hurt him, while she can barely avoid his thrown signs.

At the cinema, Shampoo comemnts on Ranma's fidgeting and asks if he's worried about Akane. He denies it, but Shampoo look thoughtful. Finally, she offers him a deal; if he'll give her a kiss, she'll call the date over and give him the instant nannichuan. Ranma, naturally, can't kiss her, and finally steals the packet and runs away. Shampoo chases him on her bike and tells him that the packet he took is also fake. Noting that he really is worried about Akane, she offers him a lift on her bike, telling him that they'll check on Akane and then they'll finish their date. Genma shows up and, believing Ranma already has the instant nannichaun, splashes the two of them, ending up with Ranma-girl riding shrieking towards the dojo and Shampoo-cat left behind on the road.

Ranma bursts into the dojo just in time to keep Akane, pinned to the wall, from being KOed by intercepting the board with her head. She changes back, and fights the dojo destroyer, who turns out to be quite a bit tougher than he is in the manga- he not only takes an Amaguriken volley to the face, he promptly slaps Ranma over the head and sends him back on the defensive. He then surrounds the two with his signs, the boards flying in a sort of enclosed vortex, prompting Genma to tell them to use the "dual jet-stream raging waters attack". Basically, Ranma swings Akane around and around, using her to deflect signs, and then springs up and delivers a jump-kick to the destroyer's face, knocking him out of the dojo and into unconsciousness.

Shampoo shows up at that point and while she stirs up some trouble by asking Ranma to pick up where they left off and claiming he said "I love you" and that they've already kissed, she gives Ranma the powder despite the fact they never actually got a kiss and the date was really something of a bust. We see the powder's limited usage in effect and Cologne congratulates Shampoo on managing to score an afternoon with Ranma for the price of a fake cure.

[SpaceKnight of Chaos]

The Kiss of Marriage is better than the Kiss of Death in my book any day. He also could have kept them away from the food, as he'd heard them complaining about being hungry before. And who knows how things might have happened if he'd spoken up and said that Ranma (at least) was actually a Jusenkyo-cursed in his cursed form instead of dragging Ranma away? The way he did it, Ranma and Genma had an angry Amazon chasing them right back to the sea.

A theory about Shampoo's behavior, though whether I came up with this myself, I saw it elsewhere online or a combination of the two escapes me. Given how Joketsuzoku society is apparently orientated around martial arts prowess and competitiveness, it's likely that their standards of romance and friendship are based primarily around the concept of 'battle-camadrie', the bonds that spring up between warriors who ally together. And beyond that, as Shampoo evidently sought to become a champion, she has undoubtedly been training since she was young. It also means she wouldn't have had any positive interactions with those in her age group, as pursuing championship in such a society means everyone else are obstacles that must be overcome in order to succeed. Thusly, others would have snubbed her, and she in turn would have used the resultant emotional hurt to spur her on further. Mousse, who we've seen has basically no intentions of trying to challenge Shampoo's place, is probably the closest thing Shampoo has ever had to a friend, and it's more than likely that any other boys she might have shown interest in were scared away by him. Thusly, even by her people's standards, Shampoo doesn't really know how to interact with others- hence her behavior, which closely resembles a juvenile girl.

Anyone else see this theory making sense?

One last bit of food for thought, is there any evidence we've seen to counteract the theory that a healthy Joketsuzoku couple might actually play tricks on each other the way Shampoo does in the Dojo Destroyer storyline, as it's considered a form of foreplay/bonding? Essentially, the aim is a subtle blending of minor one-upsmanship and encouragement by teasing? A way of saying, basically, I'm this good, can you get better?

[mondu_the_fat]

And beyond that, as Shampoo evidently sought to become a champion, she has undoubtedly been training since she was young. It also means she wouldn't have had any positive interactions with those in her age group, as pursuing championship in such a society means everyone else are obstacles that must be overcome in order to succeed. Thusly, others would have snubbed her, and she in turn would have used the resultant emotional hurt to spur her on further.

Not necessarily. Despite what teen movies might say, the top dog in a social circle does have true friends in addition to hangers on. You don't have to step on everybody else to get to the top -- the other amazons are opponents, not enemies. I'm pretty sure there were a few people pissed at Shampoo for various reasons, but I doubt it if she was a loner. Anime shampoo, in particular, has those two amazon kids (RanRan?) concerned enough for her to go to Nerima.

To put it another way, boxers pummel each other all the time, but that doesn't mean they hate/snub each other (ear biting notwithstanding).

He also could have kept them away from the food, as he'd heard them complaining about being hungry before.

No matter how hungry I was, I'd consider it very strange/insulting if a guide would keep me away from sitting down next to food out of fear that I would steal it. And unless there's evidence that the guide knew that Ranma and Genma would steal the food, I wouldn't blame him for not thinking so, no matter how much they'd complain.

[Jupiah]

Yeah, I got that point a little wrong, it'd been a while since I'd seen that episode. However, the anime is very different to the manga version.

Which episode and which season is that episode? I actually bought the entire anime series, though I was pretty dissapointed with it and stopped watching after the first season.

The Kiss of Marriage is better than the Kiss of Death in my book any day.\And who knows how things might have happened if he'd spoken up and said that Ranma (at least) was actually a Jusenkyo-cursed in his cursed form instead of dragging Ranma away? The way he did it, Ranma and Genma had an angry Amazon chasing them right back to the sea.

I think he was respecting Ranma and Genma's privacy by not telling the Amazons of the curse. Most people who get cursed are powerful martial artists and are very embarrassed of their curses. He was afraid they might hurt him if he blabbed their secret to strangers. It could have happened to him before.

A theory about Shampoo's behavior...

That makes a lot sense actually. It explains a lot of her behavior. Still, if she really cared about Ranma as a person, she would eventually realize just how much her behavior annoys and angers him, and would tone it down. In the manga at least, there is no evidence of that.

One last bit of food for thought, is there any evidence we've seen to counteract the theory that a healthy Joketsuzoku couple might actually play tricks on each other the way Shampoo does in the Dojo Destroyer storyline, as it's considered a form of foreplay/bonding? Essentially, the aim is a subtle blending of minor one-upsmanship and encouragement by teasing? A way of saying, basically, I'm this good, can you get better?

That might explain her behavior in the anime, where she appears to be a lot kinder, but in manga she was just being cruel to him. She blackmailed and tormented him, and laughed about it afterwards. There was no affection there. Lots of lust, jealousy, and possessiveness, but very little real affection.

[SpaceKnight of Chaos]

The Dojo Destroyer is translated into the anime as episode 10 of the 2nd season, titled "Danger at the Tendo Dojo".

I don't know if the scene is the same in the manga, but after Cologne demonstrates her Chestnut Fist in front of the Tendo household and leaves, there's a shot of Genma-panda in the pond. Does anyone else think he looks dejected? If yes, any ideas why?

A common fanon thing I see is that Kodachi and Tatewaki are nuts. Is there any evidence to back this up in the canon? Or at least, can you give me a list of 'notable events' that might explain why people got this impression?

[Jupiah]

A common fanon thing I see is that Kodachi and Tatewaki are nuts. Is there any evidence to back this up in the canon? Or at least, can you give me a list of 'notable events' that might explain why people got this impression?

Both have seen Ranma transform numerous times and still think he is two seperate people. Both are obssessed to a very unhealthy degree with their 'loves'. Both think that the target of their affection loves them back, despite a great deal of evidence to the contrary. Both are arrogant and narcisistic beyond reason. And Kuno has attacked Ranma with deadly force (using a steel katana) on two seperate occasions, once at the failed wedding to 'free' Akane, and another time at the Weaver's Festival for no apparant reason. Kodachi has drugged innocent people numerous times. I'd say Kuno is crazier, because at least Kodachi has never attempted to murder anyone, but they're both pretty loony.



I've got a strange observation to share. Ranma went into the nekoken for the first time in the manga after being attacked by a tiger. But after that occurance, he seems to have gained some kind of 'tiger-immunity' to his cat fear. Twice since then he has been in physical contact with a tiger. He rode a circus tiger during the arc where Mousse kidnapped Akane and tried to turn Ranma into a duck, and was bitten by one in the Weaver's Festival arc when he was chasing the piece of paper with Akane's name on it. Neither time did he freak out, or even seem slightly nervous. Does anyone else think this is pretty odd?

[SpaceKnight of Chaos]

Where in the manga does Kodachi see Ranma transform? In the anime, she never sees Ranma change between forms, unlike Kuno, who famously hugged Ranma-girl in... the 5th, maybe 6th episode of the anime and had Nabiki pour hot water over the two of them.

Anime Kodachi actually seems pretty sane. Bar in "A Leotard is Girl's Burden"- there, she paralyzes Ranma, ties him up and suspends him upside down over her alligator's pond, within reach of the leaping reptile. Which is closer to the manga characterization of her, I believe.

Also, doesn't Kodachi know that Ranma doesn't love her, she just refuses to let that stand in her way? Or maybe that's part of the anime version of her...


And it is odd. Maybe, in those circumstances, he's so focused on something else (saving Akane from the duck water and getting that leaf that will seperate him and Akane if it gets ripped) that he doesn't consciously notice them?


Come to think about it, how extensive is Ranma's fear of cats? The anime version of the Dojo Destroyer story has him swipe Shampoo's bag and pull out a cat, which meows, and he shrieks in fear. When we next see him, he's sprawled on the ground, to all extents paralyzed, and the cat is curled up on his stomach. I've seen some fics where he can't even say the word cat.


On a different topic, just how powerful is Cologne? What sort of things is she likely to know?

[Drawde]

In one of the stories, the one with Ranma trying to get the negatives that looked like he was about to kiss Kodachi, Ranma was trying to open the belt with the negatives in it, but it would only open in hot water. And Tatewaki had it on, and it shocked you if you tried to take it off. Ranma was trying to lure Tatewaki into a bathtub with his female form, but Tatewaki wouldn't go in. Ranma was just in "her" boxers when he managed to push Tatewaki in, and got the negatives. Then Akane pushed Ranma in, and was furious, because she had seen the picture. Kodachi came in during the argument, and tried to kiss Ranma. Akane hit Ranma with some cold water, while Kodachi was looking and holding him. Kodachi then accused the now female Ranma of hiding male Ranma.

As for Kodachi knowing Ranma doesn't love her, during her "battle" with Asuka, the White Lily, Akane had Ranma go on a date with Kodachi, so she and Asuka could compare "boyfriends". Kodachi admitted that she knew Ranma was only going with her out of pity. Which implies that she knows he doesn't love her. She then paralyzed him and tried to kiss him, saying that, "Pity, in time, may well turn to love...!" (direct quote).

Ranma doesn't seem to fear cats too much, unless they surprise or attack him. He didn't freak out too much while being surrounded by them, until the tiger was introduced. And he didn't go into the neko-ken when the Tendo's hung the cats on him, even if he did pass out while standing up. He will run from them though, given the chance.

[Jupiah]

Where in the manga does Kodachi see Ranma transform? In the anime, she never sees Ranma change between forms

She saw him change Akane splashed him during the arc where she blackmailed him with a doctored photo, and she probably saw him change at the failed wedding. I'm pretty sure she's seen it one more time, but I can't seem to find where.
http://ranmahentai.ranma.ws/RanmaManga/Book09/RM09-052.html

Also, doesn't Kodachi know that Ranma doesn't love her, she just refuses to let that stand in her way? Or maybe that's part of the anime version of her...

Trying to force someone who wants nothing to do with you to love you is still pretty crazy.

And it is odd. Maybe, in those circumstances, he's so focused on something else (saving Akane from the duck water and getting that leaf that will seperate him and Akane if it gets ripped) that he doesn't consciously notice them?

You'd have to be pretty damn focused to not notice that you're riding or being bitten by a tiger.

Come to think about it, how extensive is Ranma's fear of cats? The anime version of the Dojo Destroyer story has him swipe Shampoo's bag and pull out a cat, which meows, and he shrieks in fear. When we next see him, he's sprawled on the ground, to all extents paralyzed, and the cat is curled up on his stomach. I've seen some fics where he can't even say the word cat.

That happens the same way in the manga. Just about everytime he sees a cat he leaps back at least 30 feet (that seems to be the closest he can consciously bring himself to be near them) and whenever he's touched by one he either becomes paralyzed with fear, lashes out at the cat desperately, runs like a bat outta hell, or of course, falls into the Nekoken. Which one of those reactions he has seems to depend on which reaction will be funniest in that scene. The only exception was when he was in the basement with hundreds of cats. He was able to barely function normally due to sheer willpower, but that was because it was a matter of pride - he didn't want anyone to know about his weakness. He's only gone into the Nekoken three times in the manga (not counting his flashback). It took being attacked by a tiger, having Akane grind neko-shampoo into his face, and being licked by a gigantic ghost cat to do it though. It's definetely not easy for him to access the nekoken.

[Weebee]

Well, i've got this pathalogical hatred of shampoo that stems from all the times she's chased Ranma down in Neko-form... Having someone deliberately poka an ingrained fear is NOT fun people, take it from a clostraphone who used to get locked in basements and closets by bastardly siblings...

But attempting to put my animocity to one cide, I'd say that Shampoo definately 'thinks' she loves Ranma, if nothing else. Like all other Ranma 1/2 characters she's got her problems though. I think she's really just got a combination of hero worship for someone so much stronger than her and lust for him in general, but I could be wrong...

I think the common theory that the Kuno siblings are nuts is generally caused by the fact that their father is nuts, and Tater wacky is quite easy to see that way. While Kodachi's a bit more sane, she gets painted with the same brush as the rest of 'em. ALso, i said a BIT more sane. LOL

Ranma's Nekoken fear is a hard thing to peg down, it changes from time to time. One thing about it though is that it's definately less common than some fanfics make it out to be, although the stuttering while saying the word is somewhat cannon. He's never not been able to say it, but I can recall many instances where he says C...C...C...CAT! or CAAAAT! Of course that could be because he rarely ever says the word unless there's a cat around, and then almost all of his words are stuttered.

As for the drowned man question... I personally think that anything other than a LOT of water, or a dip in the actual pool would make the cursed people's situation a lot worse... The often sighted 'instant' packets seem a bit off to me. I mean, the instant stuff is POWDER! From all we know, Jusenkyo is pure water with a magical enchantment... You can't make that into a powder, if you tried it'd all boil off into the air. My guess is the instant packets aren't actually Jusenkyo, just some sort of magic item that mirrors the function of Jusenkyo. That'd also answer the question of why they work on Ranma and Genma.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and the Ranmascan project rocks. You should definately check it out if you haven't read the manga. See link in post above.

[Jupiah]

The often sighted 'instant' packets seem a bit off to me. I mean, the instant stuff is POWDER! From all we know, Jusenkyo is pure water with a magical enchantment... You can't make that into a powder, if you tried it'd all boil off into the air. My guess is the instant packets aren't actually Jusenkyo, just some sort of magic item that mirrors the function of Jusenkyo.

One common fanon theory is that the Jusenkyo Springs are actually salt water, and the powder is the result of crushing the salt you find after boiling the water. I don't really know how feasible this theory is though... the water comes from Jusendo Mountain, from a magical dragon-shaped tap deep underground. Is it possible for and underground stream to be salt water?

[Weebee]

I THINK it's possible, if there's a large salt deposit that it runs over it could be salt water... Not incredibly likely, though... *Shrugs*

[Jupiah]

Yeah, it probably isn't, or else Happosai would have been a little more annoyed than he was after drinking a whole cask of Jusenkyo water.