Shampoo vs Akane

[antimatterenergy]

Shampoo is likely only allowed to perform basic training

I doubt that. It seems to me that Cologne just wants her to redo her basic training (a common thing done by trainers when you screw up since you need a good grasp on the basics) but would still teach her new stuff. Limiting her doesn't make sense since Shampoo has to keep up with her rivals and could be challenged by fellow amazons for title of best fighter in village.

The manga and anime have proven that characters who stick to simply repeating and reusing training they've already mastered does little to improve a martial artist's skills.

When does it do that? The others have to be improving else they would no longer be able to compete with Ranma and they still are able to. Ranma and Ryoga appear to be improving at a greater speed but how much any character is improving is unknown we do see them improve occasionally for instance Mouse by dating a statue got better stamina and stronger. Only thing it shows is that the characters do not improve to the same extent.

[SpaceKnight of Chaos]

She isn't in the village though, so that's something she doesn't need to worry about. Also, old laws like that tend not to be logical, and frankly a lot of the Amazons' behaviour hasn't been logical. You'd think that Cologne, with at least a century of experience, would realise the logical course of action to bring Ranma to Shampoo would be for her to direct her great-granddaughter to approach him as a friend, to ask him to friendly sparring matches and pass on techniques to her which she, in turn, can teach to Ranma, thus building a rapport... but does she do this? No. I don't think she outright interferes in any of Shampoo's schemes after the Full-Body Cat's Tongue disaster in the manga, and in the anime the only other time I can think of is when she "runs intereference" during the Red Thread of Fate- and here she goofs up again, toying around with Ukyo instead of simply knocking her out and moving to intercept Akane.

Besides, like I said, simply doing the basics over and over doesn't make your skill decrease, it just means that your rate of increase is miniscule. Shampoo was the best fighter in the village, and she likely remains so, even if being completely retrained.

Yes, they improve, but the improvements are never enough compared to the ones Ranma and Ryoga go through. They're getting better at things they already knew, practise makes perfect after all, but they aren't gaining any new skills- Kuno becomes steadily better at Kendo through the manga, but still he can only use kendo forms and nothing else. After any initial victories, do any of them every win against Ranma again? Ryoga is the only one I can think of, and like I said he changes and alters his training regime all the time, just like Ranma.

[Jupiah]

My theory is she is impatient and believes herself to already be a good cook hence doesn't need to learn the basics.

For her to believe she is already a good cook when everyone who eats her cooking becomes violently ill she would have to have a serious case of Kuno-brand-denial (TM). There's something more than simple impatience causing her problem.

It doesn't run against common sense if you think that everyone is breathing water and it's just an ability you haven't acquired yet.

That kind of logic might work for a 5 year old, but Akane is a little old to buy it now without being willfully ignorant and in serious denial. Unless you're saying she's never payed attention to a biology class, or heard of the concept of drowning, that no one (including her parents) has ever explained this to her after learning of her problem, and that she ignores the thousands of little hints and clues in everday life that make 'people breathe air, not water' common knowledge around the world.

Nope he was trying to remove the belt without hitting Akane that is why he snuck his hand under the belt.

He tried to punch the belt twice before he started feeling guilty (because Nabiki said something about it) and stuck his hand under her belt. She just knocked him away both times before his fist could connect.

There are a lot of examples of him moving at incredible speeds

Moving faster than your opponent can respond is a bit different than "moving so fast that people can't keep track". The way you worded it led me to believe that you were referring to "DBZ" style warping, which only Ranma using the Umisenken and Mint ever actually do (and Ranma's not actually moving faster than normal, he's just invisible). Most of your examples are simply of Ranma outmaneuvering his opponent with superior speed and skill. The only example you gave that fits that description is the Parlay Du Fois Gras technique Ranma used against Picolet Chardin III, and as that technique appears to trade power for speed, it would be useless outside of a speed-eating contest. As for Ranma replacing himself with a log against Herb, that's not so much a speed thing but an actual limited-teleportation technique similar to the one commonly used in Naruto. Ranma uses this same technique again against Konatsu later in the series, and Konatsu recognizes it as the "Disappearing Body Technique", implying it is a legitimate ninja skill. The reason Ranma couldn't outmaneuver Akane like that is because the suit boosted her speed and skill to match his, not because he was holding back.

Not true we do not know to what extant her training was unlike Ranma who started his training trip before he could even walk (in the manga at least in anime he started when he was 6)

No details about Shampoo's training are given directly, but I can make some educated guesses based on the information we are given. Considering she comes from a warrior society that values strength and ruthlessness, it would be odd if she didn't start training at a young age or focus the majority of her training on martial arts. Those amazons seem to train just as brutally as Genma may have trained Ranma (the training for the KTA and the Bakusai Tenketsu are pretty harsh), but they're much smarter about it by taking greater safety measures (Cologne personally oversees Ryoga's training, compared to Genma chucking Ranma in a pit of starving cats and coming back later).

Shampoo doesn't seem to have gone through any these extreme training methods, leading me to wonder if she is too frail to survive them or just unwilling to try. Shampoo is familiar with modern technology such as video games (she has a SNES, it was shown it that arc where Mousse dates the statue) and the village has newspapers and phones, so maybe it's just a typical case of teenagers rebelling against their elders, with Shampoo showing more interest in modern culture than tradition. With their proud 3000 year heritage as warriors, Cologne must be rather dissapointed in Shampoo for being beaten so easily.

[Drawde]

On the topic of Akane's training, when is anything specific mentioned in the manga? I don't remember anything being said, just her being shown practicing in a few panels. Also, how often are the others shown, especially Ranma? People keep saying Akane hardly practices in the manga (I know that it's stated in one of the OVAs, which is why I'm only discussing the manga), but I don't remember anyone else doing so either, unless it's something like Ranma learing something specific, like the umisenken.

[antimatterenergy]

Moving faster than your opponent can respond is a bit different than "moving so fast that people can't keep track". The way you worded it led me to believe that you were referring to "DBZ" style warping, which only Ranma using the Umisenken and Mint ever actually do (and Ranma's not actually moving faster than normal, he's just invisible). Most of your examples are simply of Ranma outmaneuvering his opponent with superior speed and skill. The only example you gave that fits that description is the Parlay Du Fois Gras technique Ranma used against Picolet Chardin III, and as that technique appears to trade power for speed, it would be useless outside of a speed-eating contest. As for Ranma replacing himself with a log against Herb, that's not so much a speed thing but an actual limited-teleportation technique similar to the one commonly used in Naruto. Ranma uses this same technique again against Konatsu later in the series, and Konatsu recognizes it as the "Disappearing Body Technique", implying it is a legitimate ninja skill. The reason Ranma couldn't outmaneuver Akane like that is because the suit boosted her speed and skill to match his, not because he was holding back.

Actually this depends on interpretation It could be limited Teleportation or just moving for a short period at incredible speeds (doesn't matter much which it is). Ranma does move at inhuman speeds for short periods frequently, most of what we see is after images or just the last move in the combination -had they shown every punch in the battles the manga would be about a thousand pages long each. While Umisenken granted invisibility he also had to have moved super fast remember he managed to remove all 4 support posts of the room at such speed as to have the entire floor fall straight down. First off there is no proof that he sacrificed power for speed and even if he had it doesn't make it useless since if he could throw food fast and with accuracy he could throw rocks or darts as well and he could move at that speed and hit pressure points or stab into weak spots of the body. He was definitely moving faster than people could track on multiple occasions even in the very first volume. Tattooed Kuno's name onto his forehead in bruises faster than Kuno could see, Moved multiple feet away from Kuno directly into his face before Kuno could blink, and Nabiki could not see Ranma move when he kicked Kuno she even commented that she didn't see him move. So Ranma does move fast enough that people can't keep track of him. While you may not think Ranma was holding back against Akane I disagree in my interpretation he was holding back since we have seen him move much faster than he did during that battle and he did not use a multitude of techniques we have seen him use in other battles. Also he was actively trying to not hit Akane (or arguably trying to hit only one spot which is more difficult than just trying to hit someone anywhere). It's also arguable as to whether the suit augmented Akane or did all the work itself since Ranma had trouble against the suit by itself.

On the topic of Akane's training, when is anything specific mentioned in the manga? I don't remember anything being said, just her being shown practicing in a few panels. Also, how often are the others shown, especially Ranma? People keep saying Akane hardly practices in the manga (I know that it's stated in one of the OVAs, which is why I'm only discussing the manga), but I don't remember anyone else doing so either, unless it's something like Ranma learing something specific, like the umisenken.

The majority of everyones training is unseen simply because it wasn't important to the story lines though we do occasionally see some of it such as Ranma sparing with Genma, training in the woods while having wood targets launch at him, Doing push-up/sit-ups while watching tv, doing kata in the dojo, walking on telephone lines or fences, practicing with Numchuks, Akane sparing with Ranma, lifting weights in her room, etc... The full extent in what styles they've been trained in is unknown (considering the speed Ranma learns entire styles over night on a few occasions he likely knows hundreds), Type of training they do every day is unknown (Ranma does still go on training trips even during the manga), what there training regiment consists of is unknown (We see glimpses but not enough to really tell), even the full extent of there abilities are unknown (We know a few of the techniques and how powerful a technique was at one point but we don't know how much the technique was improved upon or the limits of the techniques -ex. we see Ranma and Ryoga throw ki blasts at one another for a long period of time but for how long they can continuiosly throw them is unknown and full extent of improvements unknown Ranma did improve upon the moko takabisha with a double version and likely if we saw him do it again it would be a new variant. Ranma also has a tendency to pull out techniques we've never seen before like when he cut a perfect hole through a stone wall barehanded -while pretending to be Ryoga's maid -or when he pulled Shampoo's bra off Shampoo through her shirt without using his hands or damaging the shirt or the bra, volume 38 -when he learned them and how is completely unknown).

[Drawde]

That's pretty much what I thought. The "Akane only trains as a hobby" is Anime only canon. Though I do admit she might not be into training as much as the others, since she has a social life, it still isn't mentioned. And Shampoo and Ukyo have jobs, which would limit the amount of training time as well.

[FriendlyEL]

Personally I get the impression that both Ukyo and Shampoo are very much superior to Akane (although Ukyo is arguably fairly close to Akane's level if you disarm her). As others have mentioned, Shampoo does not only have more skill than Akane and more speed but as the beginning of the Super Soba story has shown she is stronger as well. Plus, she was able to fight about evenly with Akane when the latter was currently using Super Soba noodles.

[Jupiah]

Ranma does move at inhuman speeds for short periods frequently, most of what we see is after images or just the last move in the combination -had they shown every punch in the battles the manga would be about a thousand pages long each.

Of course they don't show every punch thrown - Ranma has mastered an attack that allows him to throw over a hundred punches a second, it would be ridiculous to draw them all. Thats why Takahashi usually treats each Amaguriken 'burst' as if it were a single really powerful attack; it has essentially the same effect. That doesn't mean he can move his whole body that fast, as you seem to be saying. Or are you trying to say that every fight in the manga is actually much longer than shown, and only the important attacks are shown? That's a very large assumption to make, and I can't see how you could possibly prove that.

First off there is no proof that he sacrificed power for speed and even if he had it doesn't make it useless since if he could throw food fast and with accuracy he could throw rocks or darts as well and he could move at that speed and hit pressure points or stab into weak spots of the body.

You have a point, the Parlay du Frois Gras can still be useful. However, the fact that Ranma never uses it again implies that it is weaker than the Amaguriken. It is probably faster or more accurate though, or Ranma would have simply used the Amaguriken for that eating contest.

He was definitely moving faster than people could track on multiple occasions even in the very first volume. Tattooed Kuno's name onto his forehead in bruises faster than Kuno could see, Moved multiple feet away from Kuno directly into his face before Kuno could blink, and Nabiki could not see Ranma move when he kicked Kuno she even commented that she didn't see him move. So Ranma does move fast enough that people can't keep track of him.

Kuno is not very fast or perceptive, and Nabiki is not a martial artist, so moving faster than they can follow isn't that impressive. Judging by her running commentary, Akane seemed to be able follow his movements in those two fights. Ranma's super-speed kick to Kuno was impressive though, it seems odd that he never uses it again. I would guess that Takahashi felt she might have overpowered Ranma a bit in the first volume and cut back on his speed until the Amaguriken training.

While you may not think Ranma was holding back against Akane I disagree in my interpretation he was holding back since we have seen him move much faster than he did during that battle and he did not use a multitude of techniques we have seen him use in other battles. Also he was actively trying to not hit Akane (or arguably trying to hit only one spot which is more difficult than just trying to hit someone anywhere).

You seem to be saying that he wasn't going at full speed because he wasn't dodging her with humiliating ease, or running circles around her, like he has done with other opponents. Another explanation that fits the evidence better would be that he WAS going full speed, but she could keep up with him because of the suit. You have to keep in mind that those kinds of displays of speed in anime are relative - the greater the difference between Ranma and his opponent, the more impressive the manuveur looks. Just because Ranma can make Kuno or Mousse look slow and clumsy doesn't mean he can do the same to any opponent at will.

As for not using a 'multitude of techniques', well Ranma never uses a multitude of techniques in any fight. He has 3 main techniques he uses - Amaguriken, Moko Takabisha, and Hyruu Shoten Ha. He'll occasionally make new variations of those 3 skills in battle, such as the Double Moko Takabisha, the super-focused Amaguriken he used against Ryoga during the Bakusai Tenketsu duel, or the Hyruu Korin Dan (which was essentially a counterattack to the Hyruu Shoten Ha). But he has never used any of these revisions more than once, as they are all very limited in their application.

Ranma didn't use any of those attacks against Akane because his goal wasn't to defeat her, but rather to remove the suit. Also, Ranma wanted to defeat Akane using normal fighting skills, as thats how she first beat him. He has a habit of trying to defeat his opponent's techniques rather than fighting them directly. That's part of why he always accepts ridiculous challenges; he likes to humiliate his foes by beating them with their own rules. He can be a REALLY sore winner.

Anyway, I'm saying that maybe he was holding back skill-wise against battle-dogi-clad Akane, but I don't think he was limiting his speed any. And he didn't use his special attacks simply because they were wholly inapropriate to use against Akane.

The full extent in what styles they've been trained in is unknown (considering the speed Ranma learns entire styles over night on a few occasions he likely knows hundreds)

HUNDREDS of styles? I think you're grossly overestimating Ranma's skill. The only style Ranma has learned overnight (though I think it was closer to a week) was the Umisenken, and that's not really a true martial arts style, but rather a group of related ki techniques designed to support and improve an existing style, such as Anything Goes. Anyone that relied solely on a style like that to fight would be in serious trouble if they found their ki reserves running low, or their opponent learned how to counter it.

Ranma also has a tendency to pull out techniques we've never seen before

As I've already said, most of the techniques he pulls out of nowhere are one-time revisions to his main skills or are mostly useless gag techniques, such as the puppet grip and the Saotome Desperation Strikes he used against Ryoga when he had the mark of the battling gods.

or when he pulled Shampoo's bra off Shampoo through her shirt without using his hands or damaging the shirt or the bra, volume 38

Shampoo's shirt was unbuttoned, he grabbed her bra with his teeth through her open neckline. Not exactly a special technique. It is pretty impressive that he didn't damage the bra though.



On another note, I enjoy arguing with you antimatterenergy, but do you think you could use more punctuation? It can be hard to follow your posts when you use so many run-on sentences.

[antimatterenergy]

Or are you trying to say that every fight in the manga is actually much longer than shown, and only the important attacks are shown

That is the way I view it. Ranma and all the martial artists move at very fast speeds. Though your correct in me being unable to prove it beyond us seeing multi-images when they do fight. Ryoga and Ranma's fight during the koi-rod arc for instance had both Ranma and Ryoga's arms just being multiple blurs and then Ranma kicked it up a notch and his entire body blurred, he has done it on a few other occasions as well (Happosai is the one who does it the most though).

You have a point, the Parlay du Frois Gras can still be useful. However, the fact that Ranma never uses it again implies that it is weaker than the Amaguriken. It is probably faster or more accurate though, or Ranma would have simply used the Amaguriken for that eating contest.

No it doesn't. How many times does Ranma do the Armaguriken during the manga after it's original story. Only something like twice. The way I see it that isn't a new technique it is just the Armaguriken kicked up a notch. The Armaguriken isn't even really a technique in the manga it's just a high speed punch (Other's do high speed punches as well like Ryoga has).

Ranma's super-speed kick to Kuno was impressive though, it seems odd that he never uses it again.

He does. He often kicks his foot up faster than other people punch and uses his kicks fast like how he kicked Ryoga backwards during the breaking point arc knocking him into the cliff.

Ranma does use other techniques as well occasionally other than those 3 main techniques. Actually the times he uses them is the minority. Ranma rarely feels a need to use ki techniques at all. He uses a variant of the Hiryu Shoten Ha 5-7 times in the entire manga, uses the armaguriken outside of its introduction something like twice, and only used the moko takabisha in two arcs versus Ryoga and versus Miss Hinako. He has used other techniques like iron clothe technique to stop Happosai's punch with a paper fan or used a body switch technique multiple times (Herb battle, Konatsu battle, switched with a teddy bear while fighting miss Hinako, switched with a statue while being dragged by Ryoga), even used a smoke screen at one point (to get Miss Hinako away from a bunch of boys while she was unconscious).

HUNDREDS of styles? I think you're grossly overestimating Ranma's skill. The only style Ranma has learned overnight (though I think it was closer to a week) was the Umisenken, and that's not really a true martial arts style, but rather a group of related ki techniques designed to support and improve an existing style, such as Anything Goes. Anyone that relied solely on a style like that to fight would be in serious trouble if they found their ki reserves running low, or their opponent learned how to counter it.

I don't believe that I am. He learned the Umisenken after seeing it only once and if you look at page 63 and 64 of that book all those training that we see at the top of the page 107 were done on the same day as Genma showing Ranma the Umisenken (page numbering was from online scans could go check original japanese or viz version if you want I've got them as well). He definitely learned it from seeing it once even if you don't think he learned them in one night which I do that would only be to perfect them not learn them. He learned Martial Arts Tea Ceremony in one all night training session. He learned Martial arts gymnastics from watching Akane practice, etc... If he learned only one style a month for the last 10 years (though he was training longer than that in the manga) he has at least 120 styles if two styles a month that puts him at 240 well into hundreds of styles. Considering we have seen him learn entire styles in one day he could have many more than that. (Even his dumber anime counterpart has learned entire styles over night like martial arts calligraphy).

As I've already said, most of the techniques he pulls out of nowhere are one-time revisions to his main skills or are mostly useless gag techniques, such as the puppet grip and the Saotome Desperation Strikes he used against Ryoga when he had the mark of the battling gods

Some are improve, others are from before the start of the manga, and yet others are completely unknown we can only assume that he learned them off screen. Anyways that wasn't a comparison for Ranma's abilities that was showing that we don't know what he knows or where he learned them (i.e. training regiment is unknown, full extent of abilities unknown).

Shampoo's shirt was unbuttoned, he grabbed her bra with his teeth through her open neckline. Not exactly a special technique. It is pretty impressive that he didn't damage the bra though.

That he didn't damage the bra or shirt is what makes it impressive. (She did button up the shirt on the previous page if I remember correctly). Removing underwear without damaging the over wear or the under garment counts as a special technique to me. (not all techniques need to be named, heck Ranma doesn't even say the names of the special techniques every time he does them. We've seen him do moko takabisha and armaguriken without saying them and we've seen him give names to completely stupid regular techniques like spoon-fu when he threw a spoon at Happosai (his spoon did go through a wood wall though).

[Drawde]

As others have mentioned, Shampoo does not only have more skill than Akane and more speed but as the beginning of the Super Soba story has shown she is stronger as well.

Actually, if you're talking about the arm wrestling, Shampoo surprised Akane, which allowed her to win. Akane didn't even know Shampoo was inside the game. And then refused to arm wrestle her after that. She does have a lot more speed and skill though, at least in the beginning.

[SpaceKnight of Chaos]

In that scenario, actually, Shampoo is hiding inside the sumo/arm-wrestling machine and Akane knows that its up to the hardest level. She's suprised when it laughs and then explodes to reveal Shampoo (still wearing the "defender's" arm in the anime), not at the machine actually resisting/beating her.

[Climhazard]

And then refused to arm wrestle her after that.

She not refused to arm wrestle. She refused do it for *free*. Shampoo want Akane to put Ranma on stake...
Quote from manga:

If we fight for Ranma, Shampoo fight you any time

[Jupiah]

The Armaguriken isn't even really a technique in the manga it's just a high speed punch (Other's do high speed punches as well like Ryoga has).

While it is undoubtedly a training method that gives a permanent speed boost, the manga also treats the Amaguriken as a full blown special technique. Twice during the phoenix pill arc Cologne calls it a "technique" ("Groom! Have you mastered the 'Chestnuts Roasting on an Open Fire' Technique?" and "So you finally mastered the 'Chestnuts Roasting on an Open Fire' technique, eh? You're the man for Shampoo all right!"). Shampoo also refers it it as a technique. And after Ryoga learns the Blasting Point, Ranma uses it as a technique against Ryoga, by throwing hundreds of punches at once in a short burst. It is literally the only way he could hurt Ryoga at all in that battle. It was so exhausting for him to use that he was too tired to continue fighting after the fourth burst (luckily that final burst defeated Ryoga). The reason he almost never uses the Amaguriken again is because it's huge energy comsumption is too big of a drawback, and it would be overkill against anyone but Ryoga. It definetely is a technique, it's just not as obvious as his other ones because he never calls out it's name like he does constantly in the anime.

He does. He often kicks his foot up faster than other people punch and uses his kicks fast like how he kicked Ryoga backwards during the breaking point arc knocking him into the cliff.

I meant he never does a "super-multi-chun-li-style-kicks" again after he used it on Kuno. That kick you refered too that knocked Ryoga into a cliff was just a normal single kick. It seems I was wrong though, after rereading that arc, I noticed he did do another "super-multi-kicks" on Ryoga, 8 pages after the kick you mentioned.

I don't believe that I am. He learned the Umisenken after seeing it only once and if you look at page 63 and 64 of that book all those training that we see at the top of the page 107 were done on the same day as Genma showing Ranma the Umisenken (page numbering was from online scans could go check original japanese or viz version if you want I've got them as well).He definitely learned it from seeing it once even if you don't think he learned them in one night which I do that would only be to perfect them not learn them.

Alright, I'll admit that it's possible he learned the Umisenken in one night. Very unlikely, but possible. No time period is specifically mentioned for his training, but from reading the manga I would guess between a day and a week. I don't believe it he did it that fast though, because that's making him so ridiculously awesome that it starts to strain my suspension of disbelief. Especially when you consider that he didn't learn the style from Genma, he saw two techniques used by him (invisibility, and 'White Snake Venom Reliable Fist'), learned them from observation, and either reverse-engineered the rest or invented them himself. I really don't think it was Takahashi's intention to portray Ranma as that inhumanly powerful. I know he has learned individual techniques super-fast before (Hiryuu Shoten Ha in 2-3 days, Moko Takabisha in 3-5 days) but practically inventing an entire style, comprised of nine different techniques, in one day? That's going way too far. No, it's much more believable to say it was closer to a week.

He learned Martial Arts Tea Ceremony in one all night training session. He learned Martial arts gymnastics from watching Akane practice, etc...

You seem to be under the impression that "all martial arts styles are created equal" which, in the Ranma-verse, is untrue. The serious stles like the Saotome School of Anything Goes are many times more complicated and difficult to learn that the wacky sports-styles.

Martial Arts Tea Ceremony, Martial Arts Gymnastics, MA Figure Skating, Dining, Cheeleading, Badmitton ect... don't count anyway because they aren't true martial arts styles. They're sports. They consist of a half dozen or so basic maneuvers and a few restricting rules. They're useless in combat to a martial artist of Ranma's caliber. The fact that he never uses them outside of the arc they are introduced in supports this. Plot-wise, the only reasons that Ranma participates in those kind of wacky duels is because: 1)Handicapping him with unfamiliar equipment and rules is practically the only way to challenge him, without introducing a new super martial artist, and 2)It's funny.

Really, saying Martial Arts Gymnastics is the equal of a serious Ranma-verse martial arts style (such as Anything Goes) would be like saying a real-life professional gymnast could fight a real life karate-master and stand a decent chance of winning.

[edit] I'm not trying to insult or belittle gymnastics, I'm just saying gymnastics is not very appropriate for combat.

If he learned only one style a month for the last 10 years (though he was training longer than that in the manga) he has at least 120 styles if two styles a month that puts him at 240 well into hundreds of styles. Considering we have seen him learn entire styles in one day he could have many more than that.

There is no evidence that Ranma mastered hundreds of styles during his training trip. It is much more likely that he spent most of that trip studying Anything Goes, learning a few moves he liked from every other master he met and assimilating those skills into Anything Goes, making it even more adaptable than already was. That's what he does during the manga. He never learns or masters Amazon Kung Fu, he learns a few of their special techniques (Amaguriken and Hiryuu Shoten Ha) and incorporates them into his style. Your claim that he knows hundreds of styles is extremely unrealistic (even by Ranma-verse standards) and has no supporting evidence.

(Even his dumber anime counterpart has learned entire styles over night like martial arts calligraphy).

Who learned Martial Arts Calligraphy? Ryoga once met a practitioner of that style, but I don't remember anyone ever learning it, let alone overnight.

That he didn't damage the bra or shirt is what makes it impressive. (She did button up the shirt on the previous page if I remember correctly). Removing underwear without damaging the over wear or the under garment counts as a special technique to me.

Compared to throwing around vacuum blades and balls of compressed air, blowing up rocks and summoning tornadoes, stealing someones undergarments without damaging them is a parlor trick. "Special Technique" is, to me at least, a term reserved for abilities that would actually be useful in a normal battle. But I guess it's a matter of opinion.

As others have mentioned, Shampoo does not only have more skill than Akane and more speed but as the beginning of the Super Soba story has shown she is stronger as well. Plus, she was able to fight about evenly with Akane when the latter was currently using Super Soba noodles.

While Shampoo was keeping up with the powered-up Akane, oddly, after Shampoo also ate some super soba, they were still fighting equally. Of course, since that wasn't a fight, but rather a sports match, and it was interrupted by Ranma, it isn't a very useful comparison of Akane's and Shampoo's skill.

[SpaceKnight of Chaos]

It's never actually clarified whether Super Soba raises the eater's strength to a set level or simply raises it a set amount. If the former, Shampoo and Akane were now on truly equal footing in terms of strength and it would have been skill, speed and versatility that determined the match. If the latter, Shampoo would have crushed Akane as though neither of them had eaten the soba. Also, we don't really get to seem them fight after Shampoo eats the soba- I don't know about the manga, but in the anime, Shampoo appears with two massive bats and a temple bell, which she accidentally traps Ranma inside, and she then launches it into the air and smacks it to Akane with Ranma still inside. When Akane launches it back, she sees Ranma and catches it so that one edge is on the rooftop and she's holding the other, whereupon Ranma slips a soba-antidote into her mouth and brings her back to normal, trapping them both inside.

[antimatterenergy]

I did a detailed analysis of the Armaguriken on my blog: http://ranmarelated.blogspot.com/2007/1 ... riken.html in it I state another way Ranma could have defeated Ryoga without the armaguriken. Also the amaguriken as cologne taught it in the manga is a speed training exercise she was surprised that Ranma used it the way he did.

I meant he never does a "super-multi-chun-li-style-kicks" again after he used it on Kuno. That kick you refered too that knocked Ryoga into a cliff was just a normal single kick. It seems I was wrong though, after rereading that arc, I noticed he did do another "super-multi-kicks" on Ryoga, 8 pages after the kick you mentioned.

I knew it was near that story arc but since I am doing this from memory mostly I will makes some mistakes, I'm pretty sure he does it other times in the manga as well.

Alright, I'll admit that it's possible he learned the Umisenken in one night. Very unlikely, but possible. No time period is specifically mentioned for his training, but from reading the manga I would guess between a day and a week. I don't believe it he did it that fast though, because that's making him so ridiculously awesome that it starts to strain my suspension of disbelief. Especially when you consider that he didn't learn the style from Genma, he saw two techniques used by him (invisibility, and 'White Snake Venom Reliable Fist'), learned them from observation, and either reverse-engineered the rest or invented them himself. I really don't think it was Takahashi's intention to portray Ranma as that inhumanly powerful. I know he has learned individual techniques super-fast before (Hiryuu Shoten Ha in 2-3 days, Moko Takabisha in 3-5 days) but practically inventing an entire style, comprised of nine different techniques, in one day? That's going way too far. No, it's much more believable to say it was closer to a week.

She maybe making him ridiculously fast learner but that is how she did it. He learned every single technique and style at an incredibly blatantly inhuman speed except for techniques which required an altered mental state. The Hiryu Shoten Ha took longer to learn because he had to alter his mental state - develop an emotionless state and generate cold ki. He did not learn a ki blast incredibly fast because he had to focus the ki through an emotion if you look at the manga in the arc on Ranma was able to do it on his first try but it had no power behind it (fizzled out). Ranma spent rest of the day before he accidentally got it right and used it on Genma. The next morning he was able to figure out that it was depression that was powering it and then could do it when ever he wanted so long as he could make himself depressed. Spent rest of the day throwing shi shi hadokens at Ryoga and then tried to make himself depressed with little success. Total time to figuring out ShiShiHadoken less than 24 hours. Next morning he figured out that depression wasn't his thing and figured out that he could use confidence (then through many small Ki balls one after the other) hence altered the technique to serve him better. Every single time Ranma learned a style he learned it incredibly fast, so fast it surprised everyone (Genma surprised learned Umisenken comments on only showing it to him once, Cologne surprised at speed learned Hiryu Shoten Ha, etc...)

You seem to be under the impression that "all martial arts styles are created equal" which, in the Ranma-verse, is untrue. The serious stles like the Saotome School of Anything Goes are many times more complicated and difficult to learn that the wacky sports-styles.

Martial Arts Tea Ceremony, Martial Arts Gymnastics, MA Figure Skating, Dining, Cheeleading, Badmitton ect... don't count anyway because they aren't true martial arts styles. They're sports. They consist of a half dozen or so basic maneuvers and a few restricting rules. They're useless in combat to a martial artist of Ranma's caliber. The fact that he never uses them outside of the arc they are introduced in supports this. Plot-wise, the only reasons that Ranma participates in those kind of wacky duels is because: 1)Handicapping him with unfamiliar equipment and rules is practically the only way to challenge him, without introducing a new super martial artist, and 2)It's funny.

Nope part of the reason he could learn so many styles is the basics of damn near every style is the same (or differences are slight enough that a person skilled in more than one style could easily compensate) it's only at latter stages that they start to differentiate. You do realize that Tea Ceremony really exists and takes generally an entire lifetime to master. Besides that Ranma does use the techniques from them occasionally at later parts in the manga the spoon throwing technique is part of Martial Arts tea ceremony and Ranma uses it again on Happosai (misses and destroys Nabiki's tickets). Also Sports and Martial arts aren't that dissimilar quite a few martial arts are sports -wrestling, boxing, kick boxing, etc... There are also real life martial arts based on dance and dojo's that have combined the two (after all a kata is extremely similar to a dance).

Your viewing Ranma's learning of martial arts different than I am. Sure I say he knows hundreds of styles. That fits with evidence shown. What your not taking into account is that Ranma is very knowledgeable in martial arts and most styles really when it comes down to it aren't that different from each other (punch, kicks, throws, and blocks). He is not learning every style from scratch he knows the basics of the styles already, he's starting out at a level around black belt and maybe even higher depending on how similar the style is to one he already knows. He is building on knowledge he already has. For example Yamasenken technique The Dokuja Tanketsu Shö (poison snake deep hole blow) is very similar to the breaking point or any other jab just adopted to pierce instead of blow up. The Kaichü Höju Satsu (in-the-pocket round hug death) is a variant on a bear hug. He is building upon knowledge he already has. Had he been learning every style from scratch there is no way he could know so many styles but if what he is doing is only incorporating the new techniques or learning the parts that make the style unique from other styles sure he can know hundreds.

Edit- Just realized I should have used techniques from the umisenken instead of the yamasenken but shouldn't really matter to show that the techniques aren't completely new to him just different applications of them. Though he still is learning them at an incredible rate.

Really, saying Martial Arts Gymnastics is the equal of a serious Ranma-verse martial arts style (such as Anything Goes) would be like saying a real-life professional gymnast could fight a real life karate-master and stand a decent chance of winning.

That is an unfair comparison gymnastics in real life isn't built for combat. The version in the manga most definitely is. The way you should be comparing it is a master at capoeira (which is a martial arts dance in real life) fighting a real life karate master.

Who learned Martial Arts Calligraphy? Ryoga once met a practitioner of that style, but I don't remember anyone ever learning it, let alone overnight.

Your thinking of the manga the one I'm talking about happened during the anime and the reason I brought it up is to show that even the dumber, weaker anime counterpart has picked up entire styles overnight (picked up other style at that speed in anime as well).

Compared to throwing around vacuum blades and balls of compressed air, blowing up rocks and summoning tornadoes, stealing someones undergarments without damaging them is a parlor trick. "Special Technique" is, to me at least, a term reserved for abilities that would actually be useful in a normal battle. But I guess it's a matter of opinion.

You can't see how that would be useful in battle? If you can do it one way chances are you can do it the other way. Meaning if you can steal underwear by bypassing the clothing, you can probably bypass armor and inflict wounds. Really then a regular punch is a special technique since it can be useful in battle.