Jusenkyo: Cure or not?

[Uldihaa]

So you're saying that, if an author explains something in an interview or such, but doesn't put it in a published book, that that's not how things work in that author's stories?

Basicly, yes. One of the main tasks of a writer is to make sure that important information is passed on to the reader. If you have to tell the readers that information in an interview, you've failed on at least one part of your writing. What Takahashi did wasn't an explanation, that is a clarification or expansion of information already available to the reader. She told the readers that boy-water was a cure. That's a bit different than just explaining something. If she had said why Taru was able to mix his curses and why using boy-water would cure Ranma, then it would be an explanation.

[Togashi Gaijin]

Basicly, yes. One of the main tasks of a writer is to make sure that important information is passed on to the reader. If you have to tell the readers that information in an interview, you've failed on at least one part of your writing.

No, the main task of a writer is to tell a good story. The background research and thought which goes into the creation of a story - no matter how much or how little is actually done - is as much a part of the "story world" as the published works themselves. If some of this "missing background info" is later passed on to the readers in the form of comments and interviews by the author, it is just as 'canon' as the rest of it. It is, after all, still the author's work, and embodies the very definition of 'canon'.

A good extreme example of this is the Future History universe which H. Beam Piper created. The reams and reams of detailed cultural and political history HBP created was just as much a part of the story world as the published works, even though only a very small portion was actually published as fiction before the author's untimely death. The fact that the information didn't make it into an actual story does not lessen its validity.

To deny that an author who states facts or background through interviews and live comments is not adding to the story world's canon is, to me, the height of hubris - since it is basically an attempt to state that the reader knows more about what the author intended than the author him/herself does.

[Uldihaa]

To deny that an author who states facts or background through interviews and live comments is not adding to the story world's canon is, to me, the height of hubris - since it is basically an attempt to state that the reader knows more about what the author intended than the author him/herself does.

I'm not trying to say I know more than Takahashi when it comes to Ranma. And I apologize if that's the way it came across. All I was trying to say, is that, in my opinion, important facts and background that has or will be central to the characters in a story should be passed on in the body of the story.

Actually, when I think about it, maybe what I consider important to the Ranma story isn't what Takahashi considers important. I don't know, just ignore me

[Togashi Gaijin]

I'm not trying to say I know more than Takahashi when it comes to Ranma. And I apologize if that's the way it came across. All I was trying to say, is that, in my opinion, important facts and background that has or will be central to the characters in a story should be passed on in the body of the story.

Okay, fair enough. I will submit that this has indeed taken place in regards to Jusenkyo, since it is obvious to any reader that Ranma as a character believes that the Nyanniichuan is indeed a cure for his curse. This is true no matter what Takahashi has or has not said outside of the stories themselves, and since she did not actually bring the story to a specific and detailed conclusion (outside of "lived some-what happily ever after" last page postscript), the actuality of cure/no-cure is essentially irrelevent to the story itself.

Given this, those of us who write Ranma doujins must accept any official peripheral data originating from Takahashi as a further definition of what is canon. It really doesn't matter if this additional makes logical sense or not to us - what the author states as facts are simply that - canon facts.

Whether or not to accept all of canon as the sole basis for a doujin is, of course, up to each individual author. There have been numerous *excelent* stories which directly contradict canon (by definition all doujin is non-canon if you think about it), and their non-canon-ness in no way detracts from the quality of writing or the doujin author's ability to tell a good story.

[Southern Cross]

Actually,there isa canon explanation as to how Taro was able to mix his curses-it's shown near the end of the "twin spring" storyline that if you only splash a small part of your body (i.e. a lump on Happosai's head) only that small part is cursed.
My guess is,in order to cure the curse,you have to bathe or shower in the appropriate cursed water.

[Suikie]

Ok, the conversation is kinda going in circles now... and be sure to read an entire thread before posting :p. Anyways, even if Rumiko said the springs will cure the curses... she never said Ranma would get cured even eventually. Also, if the springs being able to cure the curse WERE officially stated... then that would merely make fics that deny it as a cure AU. Really though, someone needs to find a publication regarding the interview just for referencial data. That way it can be integrated into commonly accepted canon as fact instead of conjecture. I myself will probably always believe Ranma is unable to be cured for one reason or another. Perhaps Jusenkyou normally WOULD cure a cursed victim... but maybe Ranma is somehow an exception? Always a possibility!

[Drawde]

There are a couple of reasonable times that information isn't in the actual story. The first is that the information never came up. The creator of the Tenchi Muyo OVA named Tenchi's mother Kiyone. It just never came up in the series itself, until the third OVA finally came out. Most authors will decide on things ahead of time, that just aren't mentioned in the story, in case they do end up being needed.

The second is important information that just hasn't been put out yet. If George Lucas, right after "Star Wars" came out, accidentally said in an interview that Vader was Luke's father, would you say it isn't canon until "The Empire Strikes Back" came out?

I know neither of those are relevant to the discussion about Jusenkyo, but they are valid reasons for things not being mentioned in a story, but still being canon.

One other question. What if, for example, Takahashi was asked in an interview about why Ranma and Genma didn't get cured right after being cursed, and she said either "Oops, I forgot to put that in. The reason was...", or "I wrote that, but had to cut it out because I had too many pages. The reason was..."?

[Goldarmy]

If some of this "missing background info" is later passed on to the readers in the form of comments and interviews by the author, it is just as 'canon' as the rest of it. It is, after all, still the author's work, and embodies the very definition of 'canon'.

To deny that an author who states facts or background through interviews and live comments is not adding to the story world's canon is, to me, the height of hubris - since it is basically an attempt to state that the reader knows more about what the author intended than the author him/herself does.

Come on, an interview isn't author's work; it is schmooze, small talk. I am not ignoring importance of author's statements, they are canonical sources but the prime source is always the main work. And when the information from interview contradicts with main work it is better to side with latter.

it's shown near the end of the "twin spring" storyline that if you only splash a small part of your body (i.e. a lump on Happosai's head) only that small part is cursed.

It wasn't a splash, it was one tiny drop. A crow was duplicated with a splash. It shows the power of the curse (at least power of Drowned Twins Spring) though.

If George Lucas, right after "A New Hope" came out, accidentally said in an interview that Vader was Luke's father, would you say it isn't canon until "The Empire Strikes Back" came out?

If such a speech like below had occured in "A New Hope" yes.

<Darth Vader>- It is hopeless old man. You can't defeat me, not even your apprentice Skywalker could have defeated me.

The creator of the Tenchi Muyo OVA named Tenchi's mother Kiyone. It just never came up in the series itself, until the third OVA finally came out.

This doesn't count as the information is given inside the series.

Most authors will decide on things ahead of time, that just aren't mentioned in the story, in case they do end up being needed.

And some authors don't decide things even at the end thus leaving loose ends.

What if, for example, Takahashi was asked in an interview about why Ranma and Genma didn't get cured right after being cursed, and she said either "Oops, I forgot to put that in. The reason was...", or "I wrote that, but had to cut it out because I had too many pages. The reason was..."?

It would be great but I doubt we will have something like that. I have feeling that Takahashi-san's answer was a quick response to shoo the fans questioning her about a series she was fed up with.

[Drawde]

This doesn't count as the information is given inside the series.

Actually, it does count. Yes, Tenchi's mother's name was given out in the series, but NOT until the third OVA came out, and that was more than ten years after the second came out. The creator of the series always planned on Kiyone being her name, and other people knew it. It just wasn't mentioned in the series itself until roughly ten YEARS after the series started. It doesn't change the fact that Kiyone was her name.

Also, what do you consider a valid source? Much of the information on "Tenchi Muyo" came from outside of the series itself. A lot of which wasn't done by AIC (the publisher of the series), but was put out by the creator of it. Mr. Kajishima (the creator) released various dojinshi for the series (notice, dojinshi are literally just a self-published manga, not all of which are hentai), mentioned some stuff in interviews, and co-authored 3 novels. But, as I said, none of that was by the publisher, but it's still officially what happened in the story. Some of which was mentioned in the third OVA and in GXP.

EDIT: corrected the time between OVAs one and three. Can't believe I made such a stupid mistake

[Goldarmy]

Actually, it does count. Yes, Tenchi's mother's name was given out in the series, but NOT until the third OVA came out, and that was more than ten years after the second came out.

The problem is you are giving an example about information given later in the series while the subject is about the facts that are never given in the series.

[Drawde]

The problem is you are giving an example about information given later in the series while the subject is about the facts that are never given in the series.

It's valid because, until the third OVA came out, it wasn't mentioned within the series itself, and the third OVA came out ten years after the series started. By your opinion, until it was mentioned in the series, it wasn't canon, despite it being a well known fact.

That's what I'm trying to get at. Just because something mentioned by the creator of a series hasn't been stated within the series itself, doesn't mean it's not canon. The creator probably has a bunch of information that isn't mentioned anywhere, that he's basing the series on. And some of that information does get mentioned in things like interviews. It may not have been mentioned in the story, but it's still influencing things.

Just because some Tenchi characters like Seto weren't even mentioned in the series until GXP came out, doesn't mean that all the background info that the series is based on doesn't exist. Seto was known about before GXP, and is an important character withing the setting, but not that important to the story itself until then. She's Aeka's and Sasami's grandmother, and is the one that taught Sasami to cook. She's the power behind the throne of Jurai, and has had an effect on not just Aeka and Sasami, but Ryoko too, since Kagato refused to attack Jurai while she was there. But you're saying that, until GXP came out, she didn't exist, once again despite being well known.

[Goldarmy]

It's valid because, until the third OVA came out, it wasn't mentioned within the series itself, and the third OVA came out ten years after the series started.

Point taken, I am not versed in Tenchi lore.

By your opinion, until it was mentioned in the series, it wasn't canon, despite it being a well known fact.

No I don’t think like that. In fact I have stated that information coming from other sources is canonical, but not everything is on the same level. When the information coming from other sources conflicts with what was given in the series, for example if the name of Tenchi’s mother is referenced Yamakiba in the series while she is named Kiyone out of it, you have to choose and it is better to stick with series.

[bissek]

Actually, with Tenchi there's the problem with multiple canons and different answers.

In the first Tenchi movie, which is based on the TV canon, Tenchi's mother was named Achika, while Kiyone was the name of Mihoshi's partner. In the OVA canon, however, Tenchi's mother was named Kiyone, while Mihoshi's partner was Noike (Who was nothing like Kiyone Makibi). In the time between the release of Tenchi Muyo: In Love, and Tenchi OVA 3, fans just assumed that the name of Tenchi's mother would remain constant between canons.

The change could be gotten away with because OVA Tenchi and Tenchi Universe were basically two totally different stories with the same core cast that cannot exist in the same continuity. Each is AU from the other, so changes like that don't violate canon, as their respective canons were incompatible to begin with.

[Suikie]

The problem with using Tenchi as a reference in this matter is that every single Tenchi series was made by a GROUP of people and not a single individual. With manga, the author comes up with everything. With anime that is NOT based on a manga, the producers, directors and probably a few others can change ideas made by the creator(s) and character designer(s). In this case, the original Tenchi Muyo had 2 creators but one of them left the project. The production team was never the same between seasons or series. The character designer, Masaki Kajishima, stayed the entire time but he didn't really have final say in anything.