Ranma cast's seven deadly sins

[FriendlyEL]

Since alot of time has been spent talking about the ups and downs of each charachter, I was just wondering about everyone's thoughts on exactly which one of the seven deadly sins each one of them really suffers for the most.

Much like psychological problems though, a charachter does not neccicarily have to have one specific one. For example, a businessman who not only makes a habit of doing immoral business methods but also does what he sees as the easiest (ex. does not make a habit of supervising employees) has both greed and sloth as sins.

Well, for anyone who wants to use it as a reference, here's a list of each of them.

Lust

Main articles: Lust (fornication, perversion)

Lust is usually thought of as involving obsessive or excessive thoughts or desires of a sexual nature. Unfulfilled lusts sometimes lead to sexual or sociological compulsions and/or transgressions including (but obviously not limited to) sexual addiction, adultery, bestiality, and rape.

Dante's criterion was "excessive love of others," which therefore rendered love and devotion to God as secondary. However, lust and love are two different things; while a genuine, selfless love can represent the highest degree of development and feeling of community with others in a human relationship, Lust can be described as the excessive desire for sexual release. The other person can be therefore seen as a "means to an end" for the fulfillment of the subject's desires, and becomes thus objectified in the process. In Purgatorio, the penitent walks within flames to purge himself of lustful/sexual thoughts.

Gluttony
Main articles: Gluttony (waste, overindulgence)

Modern views identify Gluttony with an overindulgence of food and drink, though in the past any form of thoughtless excess could fall within the definition of this sin. Marked by unreasonable or unnecessary excess of consumption, Gluttony could also include certain forms of destructive behavior, especially for sport, or for its own sake. Substance abuse or binge drinking can be seen as examples of gluttony therefore, so it could be safely said that Gluttony is the overindulgence in any one thing. The penitents in the Purgatorio were forced to stand between two trees, unable to reach or eat the fruit hanging from either, and were thus described as having a starved appearance.

Greed

Main articles: Greed (treachery, covetousness)

Greed is, like Lust and Gluttony, a sin of excess. However, Greed (as seen by the Church) applied to the acquisition of wealth in particular. Thomas Aquinas wrote that Greed was "a sin against God, just as all mortal sins, in as much as man condemns things eternal for the sake of temporal things." In Dante's Purgatory, the penitents were bound and laid face down on the ground for having concentrated too much on earthly thoughts. "Avarice" is more of a blanket term that can describe many other examples of sinful behavior. These include disloyalty, deliberate betrayal, or treason, especially for personal gain, for example through bribery. Scavenging and hoarding of materials or objects, theft and robbery, especially by means of violence, trickery, or manipulation of authority are all actions that may be inspired by greed. Such misdeeds can include Simony, where one profits from soliciting goods within the actual confines of a church.

Sloth

Main articles: Sloth (laziness, sadness, apathy)

More than other sins, the definition of Sloth has changed considerably since its original inclusion among the seven deadly sins. It had been in the early years of Christianity characterized by what modern writers would now describe as apathy, depression, and joylessness — the latter being viewed as being a refusal to enjoy the goodness of God and the world He created. Originally, its place was fulfilled by two other aspects, Acedia and Sadness. The former described a spiritual apathy that affected the faithful by discouraging them from their religious work. Sadness (tristitia in Latin) described a feeling of dissatisfaction or discontent, which caused unhappiness with one's current situation. When St. Thomas Aquinas selected Acedia for his list, he described it as an "uneasiness of the mind," being a progenitor for lesser sins such as restlessness and instability. Dante refined this definition further, describing Sloth as being the "failure to love God with all one's heart, all one's mind and all one's soul." He also described it as the middle sin, and as such was the only sin characterised by an absence or insufficiency of love. In his Purgatorio, the slothful penitents were made to run continuously at top speed.

The modern view of the vice, as highlighted by its contrary virtue zeal/diligence, is that it represents the failure to utilize one's talents and gifts. For example, a student who does not work beyond what is required (and thus fails to achieve his or her full potential) could be labelled 'slothful'.

Current interpretations are therefore much less stringent and comprehensive than they were in medieval times, and portray Sloth as being more simply a sin of laziness, of an unwillingness to act, an unwillingness to care (rather than a failure to love God and His works). For this reason Sloth is now often seen as being considerably less serious than the other sins.

Wrath

Main articles: Wrath (anger, hatred, rage, prejudice, discrimination)

Wrath may be described as inordinate and uncontrolled feelings of hatred and anger. These feelings can manifest as vehement denial of the truth, both to others and in the form of self-denial, impatience with the procedure of law, and the desire to seek revenge outside of the workings of the justice system (such as engaging in vigilantism) and generally wishing to do evil or harm to others. The transgressions borne of Wrath are among the most serious, including murder, assault, and in extreme cases, genocide. (See Crimes against humanity.) Wrath is the only sin not necessarily associated with selfishness or self interest (although one can of course be wrathful for selfish reasons, such as jealousy). Dante described Wrath as "love of justice perverted to revenge and spite". The wrathful in his Purgatorio were enveloped in blinding smoke.

Envy

Main articles: Envy (jealousy, malice)

Like Greed, Envy is characterized by an insatiable desire; they differ, however, for two main reasons: First, Greed is largely associated with material goods, whereas Envy may apply more generally. Second, those who commit the sin of Envy desire something that someone else has which they perceive themselves as lacking. Dante defined this as "love of one's own good perverted to a desire to deprive other men of theirs." In Dante's Purgatory, the punishment for the envious is to have their eyes sewn shut with wire, because they have gained sinful pleasure from seeing others brought lowly.

Pride
Main articles: Pride (vanity, narcissism), Hubris

In almost every list Pride is considered the original and most serious of the seven deadly sins, and indeed the ultimate source from which the others arise. It is identified as a desire to be more important or attractive than others, failing to give compliments to others though they may be deserving of them, and excessive love of self (especially holding self out of proper position toward God). Dante's definition was "love of self perverted to hatred and contempt for one's neighbor." In Jacob Bidermann's medieval miracle play, Cenodoxus, Pride is the deadliest of all the sins and leads directly to the damnation of the famed Doctor of Paris, Cenodoxus. In perhaps the most famous example, the story of Lucifer, Pride was what caused his Fall from Heaven, and his resultant transformation into Satan. Vanity and Narcissism are prime examples of this Sin. In the Divine Comedy, the penitent were forced to walk with stone slabs bearing down on their backs in order to induce feelings of humility.

[Daniel Jess Gibson]

Seven Deadly Sins:

Pride is excessive belief in one's own abilities, that interferes with the individual's recognition of the grace of God. It has been called the sin from which all others arise. Pride is also known as Vanity.
The character who isn't guilty of this is an extreme rarity, I'd even add Kasumi to the list.

Envy is the desire for others' traits, status, abilities, or situation.
Again, almost all the characters want something that another has (even if that person really doesn't have it or doesn't want it).

Gluttony is an inordinate desire to consume more than that which one requires.
This isn't just the Saotome empty stomach or the 'dog in the manger', but a picky twit who sends back one slice of toast to the kitchen, because it isn't just `perfect`.
Genma, both ice skaters would be guilty. Nabiki doesn't seem to `consume` what she takes in, so I'd give her a pass on this.

Lust is an inordinate craving for the pleasures of the body.
It also doesn't refer only to sex, ignoring your kids to go running in the morning would also fall under that category.
I'd say any of those who like to fight, most of them I'd say are masochists, so getting beaten up by their `love` is enjoyable.

Anger is manifested in the individual who spurns love and opts instead for fury. It is also known as Wrath.
Anyone? With the possible exceptions of Dr. Tofo or Soun, I'd say most of the cast. Although Cologne would claim she was doing it for the tribe, she has her moments too.

Greed is the desire for material wealth or gain, ignoring the realm of the spiritual. It is also called Avarice or Covetousness.
'I am the Greatest Scientific Genius in the Universe!' Remember wealth or gain.
Nabiki is the one who usually is tagged with this, but 'I have to learn all techniques' Saotome and all the 'I must have {fill in the person's('s) name} or I will just die. So I'll kill you to get you out of the way' fiances/fiancees fall under that category.

Sloth is the avoidance of physical or spiritual work.
In the spiritual side, I'd say everyone of the characters. On the physical, Nabiki is the only one who springs to mind, all the others will work very hard physically, when it will advance their goal.

Who suffers from which the most, it changes too much from arc to arc to be specific. For everytime Akane is the most Wrathful in an arc, in another you have Ryoga, Ukyo, Shampoo, Saffron or others beating her by a country mile.

[SpaceKnight of Chaos]

Hmmm... these are my thoughts, though as I'm more familiar with the anime than the manga they may be off.

Akane- Wrath, definately, is Akane's foremost sin. The "Good, Bad & Ugly" list on this very website gives ample proof of that. However, she also suffers from Pride- she very rarely backs down from any challenge, real or perceived, even though she often regrets it afterward (the Charlotte Cup affair, for example). I've personally always seen her as having at least a degree of Envy, coveting the skills of the other Nerimite Martial Artists and craving the recognition she had before Ranma showed up. Her failure to try and improve her own skills could be due to a combination of Wrath and Pride (she's too arrogant to try and ask for Ranma's help/advice, and when she does give in he generally ticks her off) or to Sloth.

Ranma- Pride, pure, plain and simple. This guy is egotistical and somewhat narcisstic, and even with the excuse that he doesn't have much of an idea how you're supposed to act around others he's still extremely confident in his own abilities- which has gotten him into trouble more than once.

Genma- Sloth, primarily, though not so much physical -he's still pretty lazy though- as mental; he almost never gives a thought towards the consequences of his actions or towards tomorrow period. He's also a serious Glutton.

Soun- another Slothful character, with some slight Wrath (generally aroused when someone threatens the Saotome/Tendo arrangement) as well.

Nabiki- Greed is more than her sin, it's practically her defining character trait, though she's another mentally Slothful character as well. She seizes any advantage that comes her way but doesn't go out of her way to generate them, prefers to manipulate others and doesn't think ahead as to what consequences her actions could have.

Ryoga- Wrath and Envy are his sins. Ryoga envies Ranma's comparative good fortune -he's engaged to the girl Ryoga loves, he doesn't have problems with directions, he's a better martial artist, his curse doesn't make him helpless if he's splashed- and this fuels the burning hate and rage he feels. And he has some problems with anger management even without his Envy to provoke things.

Mousse- another Wrathful, Envious person, with perhaps a dose of Lust and Pride added to the mix for additional flavour.

Tatewaki & Kodachi Kuno- Prideful as Ranma, or even more so, and with considerable doses of Lust, as evidenced by the way they both persue their desires and cannot even consider the possibility that the target of their affection doesn't reciprocate the feeling.

Shampoo- a potent mix of Lust, Pride and Wrath; she clearly has little inhibitations and is quite confident in herself, believing herself the only real choice in the fiancee wars, but when she gets angry...

[FriendlyEL]

If you take into account the old definition of sloth, which is more or less pessemism, Ryoga is by far the greatest offender (although, in his defence he has had a pretty harsh life so it's understandable).

Happosai, the clear winner there is lust for obvious reasons. Wrath is a second, considering the fact that he has proven he can be very vindicitive to the point of being childish.

Ranma- Pride, pure, plain and simple.

Envy is another he has. When someone has what he wants(Ryoga spending time with Akane, Akane getting stronger from a powerup) he can be very upset.

[Zwzn]

Could someone please explain(hopfully with examples) of why they think pride fits Ranma? I can see maybe envy or wrath, but not pride. The big seven always seemed to be extremes to me.

[bissek]

Moko Takabisha - a weapon forged of pure confidence, which is a part of pride.

However, Ranma's pride is focused into a small area, mostly around his martial arts skills, and does not defines his overall personality.

Kuno, on the other hand, is a very prideful person, whose mind is often on the numerous things that make him a wonderful person. Things that usually aren't seen by anyone other than himself.

[claymade]

However, Ranma's pride is focused into a small area, mostly around his martial arts skills, and does not defines his overall personality.

Actually, I disagree. It does pretty much permeate his whole personality. Even down to his looks--consider the date-duel between the Black Rose and the White Lily. To quote from the Viz translation: "Why should I be compared with some other guy, anyway? Aren't I obviously perfect?"

Even better, when he finally does get his come-uppance at the end, he's the only one that steadfastly refuses to admit that the guy was actually better looking than he was. Even Kodachi--Kodachi--can't manage to delude herself into thinking that. Only Ranma.

In terms of excessive overconfidence in his own abilities, the most glaring example of that is probably when he thinks he can beat Happousai in a straight-up fight... while under the effects of the weakness Moxibustion. Of course Happousai thrashes him soundly, but Ranma still won't admit that he was defeated: "Well, I'll let you go... This time...!" he says, while lying broken on the ground.

In terms of how hard a time he has accepting others being better than him gracefully with good sportsmanship--well, the Shi Shi Hokodan arc is a pretty good example of how horrified Ranma can get at the possibility that Ryouga could actually win against him.

And of course, he'll on occasion belittle the abilities and contributions of others, taking more of the glory for himself. Probably the best example of that would be the Martial Arts Cheerleading arc--where, after Akane totally saves his bacon, he has the gall to turn around and try and make it sound like she was actually slowing him down and hindering him.

[three headed dog]

Ranma is definitely vain about his looks look at the tsubasa story line, the time on the beach before the poor hot spring owners island, and the reversal jewel storyline.

where, after Akane totally saves his bacon, he has the gall to turn around and try and make it sound like she was actually slowing him down and hindering him.

Not saying she wasn't helpful, but she did interfere and cause him to be knocked out. He was so busy denying his love of Akane that he stopped paying attention to Mariko and got knocked out which he wouldn't have done had she not interfered. So she did sort of hinder him.

In terms of excessive overconfidence in his own abilities, the most glaring example of that is probably when he thinks he can beat Happousai in a straight-up fight... while under the effects of the weakness Moxibustion. Of course Happousai thrashes him soundly, but Ranma still won't admit that he was defeated: "Well, I'll let you go... This time...!" he says, while lying broken on the ground.

I didn't really see this as being over confidence, I saw this as more "what other choice do I have" and determination/persistence i.e. he's not going to give up, but that's just my take on it.

[claymade]

Not saying she wasn't helpful, but she did interfere and cause him to be knocked out. He was so busy denying his love of Akane that he stopped paying attention to Mariko and got knocked out which he wouldn't have done had she not interfered. So she did sort of hinder him.

Hinder him? Her supposed "interfering" gave him the only chance he had to win the fight. Mariko would have kicked his ass otherwise.

http://ranmahentai.ranma.ws/RanmaManga/Book21/RM21-160.gif
http://ranmahentai.ranma.ws/RanmaManga/Book21/RM21-161.gif

Not that Ranma's going to admit that, of course.

I didn't really see this as being over confidence, I saw this as more "what other choice do I have" and determination/persistence i.e. he's not going to give up, but that's just my take on it.

Possible, I suppose. I just interpret it in the light of all his other refusals to admit that Happousai could be a threat to him.

http://ranmahentai.ranma.ws/RanmaManga/Book07/RM07-088.jpg
http://ranmahentai.ranma.ws/RanmaManga/Book07/RM07-093.jpg

[three headed dog]

Hinder him? Her supposed "interfering" gave him the only chance he had to win the fight. Mariko would have kicked his ass otherwise.

http://ranmahentai.ranma.ws/RanmaManga/ ... 21-160.gif
http://ranmahentai.ranma.ws/RanmaManga/ ... 21-161.gif

Not that Ranma's going to admit that, of course.

He was losing the competition because he didn't really love Kuno but he may have came up with some other way to win. I did say that she was helpful. The reason I say that she was also hindering him is because of this http://ranmahentai.ranma.ws/RanmaManga/ ... 22-009.gif since he was busy denying his love of Akane he got knocked out. He wouldn't have been knocked out had she not interfered. So she was both helpful in that he had someone other than Kuno to say he loved but she was also hindering him because her presence caused him to ignore Mariko and get knocked out.

[Seed00]

You know...just when I think Ranma has redeeming qualities, this forum never fails to show me just how messed up he actually is.

I once told myself he was anti-hero, I see nothing of the sort. I see people saying those two are the true couple, but after readng bitter end and that one Ranma in jim bader's reality story (I call him Shiva Ranma) I say Ranma has as much issues as the rst of te other people.

In a final line, being raised by Genma and knowing what kind of man he is and the fact that Ranma is slapstick, I ask this: would he change if forced to go somewhere else other than Nerima. Not crossover.

[FriendlyEL]

While I definately agree that he's a little of a narccicist and has alot of nastier quirks about his personality, I still wouldn't go quite as far as saying he's as screwed up as everyone else. Either way, I remember it being mentioned that alot of times his obsession with being number one in martial arts is partly because he has given up so much in life that others have that he needs to prove that it he has given up all that for a damn good reason.

In that sense, true, I think it's envy that he's really suffering from.

I guess someone should make a "How bad is Ranma" topic now.

[claymade]

He was losing the competition because he didn't really love Kuno but he may have came up with some other way to win.

Considering that not only did he think it was hopeless, but the freaking narrator also chimes in just to reiterate how screwed he was, I fail to see how Takahashi could have made it any more blindingly obvious that he wasn't going to be able to win this alone.

I mean, by that reasoning, Ranma would essentially never need to acknowledge that someone helped him--since he always theoretically "may" have come up with a way to win easier on his own.

It doesn't work like that. He was on his hands and knees, hopeless, and he couldn't come up with any ideas, which means he has no justification to belittle his rescuer's efforts on the grounds that he would have.

So she was both helpful in that he had someone other than Kuno to say he loved but she was also hindering him because her presence caused him to ignore Mariko and get knocked out.

True, but that's not the point. Ranma's not making a qualified distinction about the pros and cons of specific instances of her helping him, he's making the claim that the overall effect of her help was to "hinder" him.

He says that because Akane decided to "interfere" the fight, overall, was harder for him than it would have been otherwise, and that he had everything under control. (The last bit, especially, being a ridiculously blatant lie.)

Bottom line: he was up a creek without a paddle before Akane showed up, had no ideas, and was in despair. She gives him the one shot he has to win--and then he turns around any tries to claim all the glory for himself, snidely disregarding the help that she gave him.

You know...just when I think Ranma has redeeming qualities, this forum never fails to show me just how messed up he actually is.

I once told myself he was anti-hero, I see nothing of the sort.

Oh, I wouldn't go that far. Like most of the characters, as much as he can be an asshole, he also has his moments of true kindness and nobility. In fact, his flaws are part of why I like him so much. If he were a paragon of Kenshin-esque levels of selflessness, I doubt I'd be able to stand him--but as it is, the fact that he can be a selfish jerk makes his moments when he's better than that indescribably more poingant than someone who's just blandly and consistently nice.

[three headed dog]

I am not saying Ranma was right to belittle her help. He wasn't. All I'm saying is that even though she helped him she also hindered him, so Ranma saying that she was a hindrance is not completely unjustified, just mostly. He should have thanked her really because she was more of a help than hindrance. From his point of view, he may think he would have won easier simply because he wouldn't have been knocked out or may consider her to have been a larger hindrance than helpful.

[Zwzn]

He was losing the competition because he didn't really love Kuno but he may have came up with some other way to win.

Considering that not only did he think it was hopeless, but the freaking narrator also chimes in just to reiterate how screwed he was, I fail to see how Takahashi could have made it any more blindingly obvious that he wasn't going to be able to win this alone.

I mean, by that reasoning, Ranma would essentially never need to acknowledge that someone helped him--since he always theoretically "may" have come up with a way to win easier on his own.

It doesn't work like that. He was on his hands and knees, hopeless, and he couldn't come up with any ideas, which means he has no justification to belittle his rescuer's efforts on the grounds that he would have.

The way I see it was wrong for Akane to interfere. It matters not if she helped. Ranma had every right to be angery with Akane. It was a one on one fight, and therefore it was Ranma's to win or lose.
Akane just doesn't care about Ranma's feelings.