How valid is Ukyo's engagement?

[MageOhki]

Oh, and Dojo's don't _ask_, no.
You forget. Japan is a land of who you know, taken to extremes, folks.
Ranma would _need_ references, and if he dishonored his clan, he'd not get them. that simple.
People find these things out, folks... even if you're from, oh, say, Osaka, and are trying to get into HIroshima. People WILL find out.
Andrew

[Greybara]

your being extremely crytpic and illogical, why would he need references?
who would he need to know, and what for? how would they find out they just will? are they physcic? people dont just find things out, theres a leak or someone has to ask a question, who are they going to ask? what if ranma dosent tell them?
why in the hell traveling to hiroshima relivent and why would traveling to hiroshima some how inform people that you dishonored your clan?
do all clan dishonorers move to hiroshima?

[MageOhki]

your being extremely crytpic and illogical, why would he need references?
who would he need to know, and what for? how would they find out they just will? are they physcic? people dont just find things out, theres a leak or someone has to ask a question, who are they going to ask? what if ranma dosent tell them?
why in the hell traveling to hiroshima relivent and why would traveling to hiroshima some how inform people that you dishonored your clan?
do all clan dishonorers move to hiroshima?

*sigh* Look. Japan's a nation of who you know. If, oh, say Gaijin walked into a Dojo and ran the mat, they'd want to know who taught him... and they'd check on it, to see what trainer thinks of his student.
PLUS, in various fields, everyone knows everyone else.
it's just the way it is.
I _USED_ Hiroshima as an EXAMPLE, 'kay?
Andrew

[Greybara]

*sigh* Look. Japan's a nation of who you know. If, oh, say Gaijin walked into a Dojo and ran the mat, they'd want to know who taught him... and they'd check on it, to see what trainer thinks of his student.
PLUS, in various fields, everyone knows everyone else.
it's just the way it is.
I _USED_ Hiroshima as an EXAMPLE, 'kay?
Andrew

you used hiroshima as an example of what? distraction? encripted hidden messages? or irrelivent BS,
oh say i walked into a dojo, they probably would want me to pay before i just walked onto the mat.(im assuming ran the mat means to step onto it) maybe they'ed give me a free trial, secondly, unless i claim to be a master of their style they wont care about my other trainers, as far as their concerned im starting from the ground up, from white belt to dan 9,
secondly your statement is contradictory if japan is a nation of who you know, everyone would know how disshonorable and criminal the saotomes are, making it a moot point and calling the police on the theifs.
finaly things arent just the way they are, that kind of stuck up, 'things dont change' attitude is really ignorant, and i suppose it fits your character if you think ill be thrown out of any dojo for 'not marrying some violent macho chick.'

[Sunshine Temple]

You know.... this is getting to be a pissing contest between you two.
Now it has been drifting off topic.
So if you two want to keep your little argument take if off here.

[Daniel Jess Gibson]

your statement is contradictory if japan is a nation of who you know, everyone would know how disshonorable and criminal the saotomes are, making it a moot point and calling the police on the theifs.

That's a good point, and I have to wonder how it would change Ranma's attitude if he learned that all his striving to preserve the family's (families, Tendo's included) honor was for nothing, his father, Soun and Happosai had so polluted their honor that nothing could restore it.
That leads back to Ukyo, why does her honor depend on becoming part of such a dishonorable clan? Unless of course she actually does love Ranma, and love makes her stupid. A far better deal would be to have him join her clan.
Maybe being a landowner in Tokyo is better than a business owner in Kansai. I don't know.
Daniel

[Black Rose]

...I have to wonder how it would change Ranma's attitude if he learned that all his striving to preserve the family's (families, Tendo's included) honor was for nothing, his father, Soun and Happosai had so polluted their honor that nothing could restore it.

I could actually see that. Makes you feel a little sorry for Nodoka, though; all her hopes for a manly son are shot to hell because her husband and his master are honorless scum.
Though a point could be made (and I'm thinking total fanfic-verse here, so don't pull out the Canon cannons) that the real reason Nodoka is so worried about Ranma's perceived manliness is that she plans to pull out of her marriage in some way. It might even require her own seppuku, but she could well consider that a cheap price to save her son.

That leads back to Ukyo, why does her honor depend on becoming part of such a dishonorable clan? Unless of course she actually does love Ranma, and love makes her stupid. A far better deal would be to have him join her clan.

Honestly, I vote for stupid. Except for being able to run her own business, I've seen nothing that shows Ukyo possesses a mind able to see the long-term consequences of her actions; "Hey, I know what I'll do today, I'll go and bomb the wedding of the man I love to another woman! That will really make him see that I'm the best for him!" What a ditz. Come and protest it, sure. But no one says I love you with the gift of gunpowder.

Maybe being a landowner in Tokyo is better than a business owner in Kansai. I don't know.

Well, I don't really know the respective areas well enough to shoot my mouth off about them, but....
Everything I've read implies Tokyo is New York and Los Angeles put together, whereas Kansai is kinda sticksville. Not "we ain't never had no runnin' water here" sticksville, but still a fair bit country. It makes sense that someone with a seriously nice house and a family dojo in Tokyo would have a tad more status than a restaurant owner off somewhere else.
Out of curiousity, I know I've seen it in fic enough, but does anyone know anything about Ukyo's family's current status? She has a restaurant of her own, but are there more in her family, or does her dad just have a yatai someplace?

[nodregah]

Just to throw it it out there, The Jusenkyo guide is in a Chineese army uniform. Now I'm just going to leave the legalities of Jusenkyo at that.

[bissek]

It's not just Ukyo. NOBODY in Ranma 1/2 thinks of long-term consequences. That's what causes most of the problems. The fact that Genma is willing to make long-term promises he doesn't plan on keeping for short-term gain is what caused the engagement mess in the first place. To top it off, Ranma is only capable of seeing and attempting to solve the short-term problems, such as "Ryoga has a new powerup and is trying to kill me AGAIN, how do I beat the powerup and remain the best?" instead of the real issues such as "Ryoga keeps trying to kill me for incredibly stupid reasons, how do I make him knock it off?"
That's the major issue of the whole series. Nobody tries to learn from their mistakes or plan ahead. The closest the fiancees ever get to original planning is something on the order of Shampoo thinking 'Maybe Airen will go date me if I glomp him from the right instead of the left', or Ukyo bribing Ranma with a okonomiyaki with more toppings than normal.

[nodregah]

That is the major issue I have with Ranma 1/2, ALL of the characters are enotionally static through most of the series. Nabiki changes a little but nothing else happens.

[lwf58]

Just to throw it it out there, The Jusenkyo guide is in a Chineese army uniform. Now I'm just going to leave the legalities of Jusenkyo at that.

The Guide doesn't wear a Chinese Army uniform. He wears a two-pocket version of a Mao Suit. It was a form of clothing which was modeled after a cadet uniform worn in Japan around the beginning of the 20th century, but was designed as civilian clothing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mao_suit
Looking at the Ranma scan project, if you look at his coat, there are no collar tabs or other insignia, which would be there if he were a soldier. The Red Star insignia on his cap means nothing; civilians wore that as a way of keeping the Communist Party from doubting their loyalty.
http://ranmahentai.ranma.ws/RanmaManga/index.html
http://ranmahentai.ranma.ws/RanmaManga/index.html
The men of Joketsuzoku also wear them, although the quality of the scans in that part of the Ranma project are too poor to show them clearly; in printed manga, they are much easier to see.

[nodregah]

Thank you for clarifying that.

[Seed00]

[quote="As for who has the most valid claim I'd say Shampoo provided that the chinese government recognizes her marriage.[/quote]
When the heck did they say that?
If the chinese government rcognized the marriage. Ranma wouldn't have been able to refuse. She could have just taken Ranma, and not even get Cologne involved.
Shampoo is smarter than she sounds, her japanese may be bad, but she is very sly when it comes down to it.

[antimatterenergy]

It is never said whether China recognizes Shampoo's marriage to Ranma or not but even if they do it does not mean that Shampoo has won. Also it is very unlikely that China acknowledges the marriage since the marrying age in China is 22 for the guy and 20 for the girl since 1980. It would be much easier for her to marry him under Japanese law which had the marriage age as 13 for girls and 16 for guys upto 1995 and then changed it to 18 for guys and 16 for girls.
Article 5 of China's marriage laws states: Marriage shall be based on the complete willingness of both man and woman. No party may coerce the other party to enter into marriage, and no third party may interfere with the marriage.
So even if China acknowledges the marriage Shampoo still has to have Ranma willing to marry her also Ranma can divorce her under Chinese law for several reasons underage, maltreatment, lack of mutual affection, vicious habits that she refuses to mend her ways of (mind manipulation, blackmail, hitting him), improper registration of marriage (both have to appear before marriage registration authority in person to get registered), etc... So if China acknowledges the marriage Shampoo can't just force him to go with her but it would make her claim carry more weight than the others have.