Ranma on wikipedia

[three headed dog]

I was browsing the Ranma article on wikipedia and while I find wikipedia to be a good source for some things. I don't really like the articles on Ranma. I find http://www.furinkan.com/ and the people on this site to be much more accurate.

Here's a quote from it that has been there for months.

Ranma is quick to use insults, intimidation and/or violence when dealing with those who upset him, typically worsening the problem instead of solving it. Using diplomacy, money, or blackmail seems too complicated, or in the last case, dishonourable for his tastes.

I'm not sure about the Anime version of Ranma but that entire paragraph is wrong if going by the manga. Ranma is not quick to use insults. He doesn't insult people until after they've insulted him (not counting accidental insults and when the others insulted him first -Akane who insults him as if not more often also insulted him first multiple times and Genma who insults Ranma often). I don't remember Ranma using intimidation against anyone but Nabiki in the manga (she countered by sticking a cat in his face). Ranma has attempted diplomacy on multiple occasions with Ryoga(into), Ukyo(into), Mouse (time Mouse dated the statue), Taro, etc... Ranma would use money to solve his problems if it could the reason he doesn't is because no one other than Nabiki wants it, he doesn't have a lot of it, and he did give Nabiki money once in the manga. The reason he doesn't use blackmail is simply because he doesn't have much to blackmail the people with. He did try and blackmail Nabiki at one point (found a letter to Kuno while searching Nabiki's room thought it was a love letter) and tried to use it to blackmail her into giving incriminating pictures to him. Also he sort of uses Ryoga's curse to blackmail Ryoga (threatens to drop Ryoga into water while Akane is around).

(I've tried to improve it but someone goes and change the stuff I put when I do).

He takes great pride in his prowess as a martial artist and openly brags about it whenever he has the chance.

That's also on wikipedia. When does Ranma brag about his prowess? Sure he'll occasionally say he's the best and down plays the assistance of others but I don't remember him bragging to others. In fact I remember the exact opposite in which when asked if he does martial arts he modestly said "a little". I don't even remember him talking about any of his battles. He does brag about his physical looks though.

Another thing it mentions Shampoo as being his fiancee but isn't Shampoo technically his wife by her village laws not a fiancee. (she always calls him husband, Cologne calls him son in law, etc..) They just want Ranma to accept the marriage.

Another thing I was wondering not exactly related but is the ghost cat in volume 20 the same ghost cat that was in volume 14? Personally I'm thinking that it is a different cat spirit. Reason I think that is because Akane was surprised by it, it did not recognize Ranma and Akane, uses a different means to get girls, and the first one was scarred of Ranma because Ranma injured it while in the Neko-ken.

[FriendlyEL]

On the subject of wikipedia more than anything, I myself have done alot of scientific research for fun, and I noticed that there are far too many typos and incorrectly done information on it for one to really learn advanced physics or math all that well there. For that you're better off saving up for the actual textbooks or borrowing them at your library.

Alot of why that description for Ranma could have been inaccurate is that someone may have interpreted Ranma's personality differently than another would. Yes, he does not purposefully insult people until they do first, but once they do he will commonly say or do something rather unpleasant to them (pretend to be your sister/fiancee, rub it in people's faces that you have a secret crush on someone like he did when Akane liked Dr. Tofu), which does not seem to go against at least the first part of this statement this statement.

Ranma is quick to use insults, intimidation and/or violence when dealing with those who upset him

but is the ghost cat in volume 20 the same ghost cat that was in volume 14?

Seemed to me like the same ghost cat. Then again, you are right that it never seemed to recognize any of them.

[three headed dog]

(pretend to be your sister/fiancee, rub it in people's faces that you have a secret crush on someone like he did when Akane liked Dr. Tofu)

Those aren't insults though. Also he did not rub that she has a secret crush in Akanes face in the manga (I just checked). In the manga he thought Akane was crying because Dr Tofu doesn't love her and tried to cheer her up by making a funny face. A lot of it is probably because they are basing it on the anime and not the manga. There are a lot of differences even personality wise between them.

[antimatterenergy]

Ranma is quick to use insults, intimidation and/or violence when dealing with those who upset him, typically worsening the problem instead of solving it. Using diplomacy, money, or blackmail seems too complicated, or in the last case, dishonourable for his tastes.

I agree with you that statement is wrong but it's also very common the Spanish version of wikipedia has almost the exact same statement. I'm not sure why it's so prevalent considering it contradicts the manga. Even though I've seen most of the anime, I can't remember does Ranma in the anime not attempt to use diplomacy and blackmail? Is Anime Ranma quicker to insult than his Manga counterpart?

Un luchador testarudo, Ranma insulta, intimida o usa la violencia cuando trata con los que lo molestan, empeorando sus problemas en vez de resolverlos. Usar dinero, diplomacia o chantaje es algo que nunca, en su vida, se le ha ocurrido.

[Darth Thanatos]

I'm not sure how good is your Spanish, but the Spanish version demonizes him somewhat more. Calling him a "stubborn fighter" doesn't quite fit either manga or anime Ranma. And the last sentence has quite a change too if translated more exactly:

"Using cash, diplomacy or blackmail is something that he never in his life, has thought of."

Though it's mostly true, put together with the other sentence, it further degrades him. No mention to him finding blackmail dishonorable, for the most visible change.

[claymade]

He doesn't insult people until after they've insulted him...

Well, that's rather what the article says, isn't it? "Ranma is quick to use insults, intimidation and/or violence when dealing with those who upset him, typically worsening the problem instead of solving it." It's pointing out that if you insult him (or do something else that ticks him off) he'll typically insult you right back, rather than take a more mature response. (Or flat-out attack you, if you've ticked him off enough.)

I do agree, though, that "intimidation", per se, isn't a particular hallmark of his that I can remember.

That's also on wikipedia. When does Ranma brag about his prowess? Sure he'll occasionally say he's the best and down plays the assistance of others but I don't remember him bragging to others.

How is proclaiming that "he's the best" not bragging?

[three headed dog]

How is proclaiming that "he's the best" not bragging?

Because I don't remember him ever saying he's the best to others. He says it to himself like when he figured out the moko takabisha he said I'm a genius to himself not to others. When talking to others he's down played his abilities like when asked by Akane if he does martial arts he said a little.

The part about insults didn't bother me as much as the other part. The part about him not using blackmail, money, and diplomacy because he has used or tried to use blackmail(Nabiki, Ryoga-sort of), money(Nabiki-the only person interested in it), and diplomacy(many times) in the manga. He definitely doesn't see them as too complicated and has used other tactics just as complicated if not more so as well such as deception, manipulation, mind altering substances (suggestion incense, flowers of womanhood), magic (women repelant), knock out gas, ventriloquism (said kiss me in Akane's voice once, said Ryoga loves Ranma while under influence of koi rod in Ryoga's voice, used Kuno like a puppet to get him to apologize to Kodachi), sticking stuff in other persons food (Kuno and Densuke), seduction(Akane-to get dogi, Kuno, Ryoga), bribery (Kuno with many gifts to get his love to beat Mariko, Miss Hinako to get her to teach him her draining technique, Massage's Akane's shoulders to calm her down), alcohol(happosai), smoke screen (to save Miss Hinako), Ambushes (Miss HInako, Dogi), scare tactics (used frogs and stuff to try and scare girls out of locker room), spying, among other tactics as or more complicated. Basically I'm upset that it's saying Ranma's only solution to problems is violence and insults when Ranma has tried a multitude of tactics beyond violence and insults and the tactic it mentions intimidation is one he rarely uses at all.

[mondu_the_fat]

Who did he attack for pissing him off that didn't attack him first or was in the process of attacking him physically?

Genma. Kuno. Happosai. Herb. The Orochi. Ryuu. Prinicipal Kuno. Piccolet. Mikado Sanzenin. Tsubasa. Hinako.

The part about him not using blackmail

The wikipedia entry says nothing of the sort. it says its "too complicated". Honestly, how many problems has he solved with diplomacy/blackmail as opposed to those he solved with fighting? Considering his success rate, yes, I'd say that using diplomacy to solve his problems isn't his forte, and thus is too complicated for him to pull off.

[three headed dog]

Yeah Mondo de fat. That's true and I had realized it and removed it from my post shortly before you replied. I have a tendency to post stuff before thinking it through completely than fix it or add to it with edits afterwards.

[three headed dog]

The wikipedia entry says nothing of the sort. it says its "too complicated". Honestly, how many problems has he solved with diplomacy/blackmail as opposed to those he solved with fighting? Considering his success rate, yes, I'd say that using diplomacy to solve his problems isn't his forte, and thus is too complicated for him to pull off.

Had the article said that using money, diplomacy, and blackmail have been ineffective I wouldn't have complained but the way I read the article is that "Ranma" sees blackmail, diplomacy, and money as being too complicated/dishonorable which he doesn't. It would be hard for anyone to solve Ranma's problems using money, blackmail, or diplomacy. Only Nabiki is interested in money, Most of the cast would attempt to kill you if you tried to blackmail them and they don't have much of anything to blackmail them with, and they don't respond to diplomacy.

[claymade]

Because I don't remember him ever saying he's the best to others. He says it to himself like when he figured out the moko takabisha he said I'm a genius to himself not to others.

Huh? Just because he isn't talking to a single specific person in no way means it's not bragging. If I were given to suddenly exclaiming at my work "Ha ha! I am such an awesome computer programmer!" I can assure you that my coworkers would think I was bragging--and rightfully so--even if I weren't talking to one of them in particular.

When talking to others he's down played his abilities like when asked by Akane if he does martial arts he said a little.

Oh, it's not that he's incapable of humility. It's just that it's not his usual M.O. by any means. Most of the time, he will assert the superiority of his fighting ability without qualm.

A couple of other examples, besides the above:

http://ranmahentai.ranma.ws/RanmaManga/Book06/RM06-157.jpg
http://ranmahentai.ranma.ws/RanmaManga/Book18/RM18-016.gif
http://ranmahentai.ranma.ws/RanmaManga/Book07/RM07-093.jpg

When he thinks he's better than someone (even someone who'd tossed him effortlessly or someone he's never even met) he's very rarely hesitant to voice that belief.



Oh, and missed this the first time 'round:

Another thing it mentions Shampoo as being his fiancee but isn't Shampoo technically his wife by her village laws not a fiancee. (she always calls him husband, Cologne calls him son in law, etc..) They just want Ranma to accept the marriage.

Actually, the exact law is that "if her opponent is a man, she must make him her husband." It's true that Cologne does call him "son-in-law", but that's probably just anticipatory--like Soun calling Ranma "son". Compare that to the way she refers to the marriage itself as something that will happen in the future once they rope Ranma into it:

"Be a man. Marry Shampoo."
"He'll come begging to marry you in no time."
"I will turn you back into a man and you will marry Shampoo!"

[Zwzn]

The part about him not using blackmail

The wikipedia entry says nothing of the sort. it says its "too complicated". Honestly, how many problems has he solved with diplomacy/blackmail as opposed to those he solved with fighting? Considering his success rate, yes, I'd say that using diplomacy to solve his problems isn't his forte, and thus is too complicated for him to pull off.

It seems to me Ranma tries diplomacy when ever possible, but the other "guy" will only settle for a knuckle sandwitch.

[FriendlyEL]

As for the "more success with violence" thing, I agree with three headed dog and Zwzn that alot of the reason diplomacy tends to be unsucessful is because violence is the only type of rationalization that most of the NWC members will go by. He does commonly try to rationalize with others which he soon enough learns does not go well.

As for the times he brags, I will agree that alot of times he does even if it is commonly just to himself. However, in his defence I think part of the reason he's so stubborn about accepting Happosai being better than him is because he's aware that the old man, from what Soun and Genma tell him, is no minor headache. He's probably in some ways optimistically thinking to himself, "Just beat him up and I won't have to deal with him anymore."

[three headed dog]

Huh? Just because he isn't talking to a single specific person in no way means it's not bragging. If I were given to suddenly exclaiming at my work "Ha ha! I am such an awesome computer programmer!" I can assure you that my coworkers would think I was bragging--and rightfully so--even if I weren't talking to one of them in particular.

I don't actually consider that bragging. If I just successfully did something that was difficult I'll often say something like damn I'm good. I'm praising my own abilities for me to consider it bragging would be if I then go and tell someone else what I did to get praise from them.

The Examples: In the first he's defending himself but I do consider this bragging. In the second he's not bragging at all. In the third he's also not bragging about his abilities. Sure they all show that he's extremely confident in his abilities but that's not the same as bragging. I guess it depends on how you define bragging. In my opinion bragging is boasting about your abilities/accomplishments to others to make yourself look better and Ranma doesn't do that (often). Even not counting differences in what is considered bragging the part of the statement "brags about it whenever he has the chance" is still incorrect.

[claymade]

The listeners' reaction or expected reaction has nothing to do with whether it's bragging or not. Vocal self-praise in front of others is all that is needed to consider it that.

Proclaiming to someone "I've never lost a martial arts contest" is bragging about that achievement. Proclaiming to someone "all the other guys in Nerima are easy compared to me" is bragging about being better than them. Proclaiming to someone "I can beat so-and-so easily!" is bragging about your ability to do so.

Even not counting differences in what is considered bragging the part of the statement "brags about it whenever he has the chance" is still incorrect.

True, I agree that it probably overstates things to say literally whenever he has the chance. I wasn't defending the statement itself--I was merely commenting on what you'd said in response to it. Were I personally writing the article, I'd take a more moderate "often brags about it."