Ranma's Mech?

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Postby Daniel Jess Gibson » Mon Dec 22, 2008 8:32 pm

An EVA, but then I'm prejudiced.

I agree, Ranma would prefer to slug it out hand to hand, but he isn't married to the idea. He would insist that the mech be the best way to deal with the opponents.
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Postby FOG3 » Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:06 pm

In the Gundam universe the optimal Ace mech for Ranma would probably be a Duchy of Zeon MS-12E Kampfer or something identical in design principles. A Mech's maneuverability is constrained by design, not the pilot and thus there must be design trade offs.

So a mech that trades endurance, and undoutably armor and strength, for raw speed and acceleration so that it can deliver a quick devestating strike, but in turn needs to rapidly get out following completion of the strike before it runs out of fuel is appropriate, which is exactly what the Kampfer is designed for.
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Postby Spokavriel » Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:29 pm

Constrained by design and not pilot sounds like allot of design isues will come up making it so Ranma could get frustrated by the Mech not keeping up with his skills because it was optimized but still couldn't be as versatile as he is use to fighting.

Adapting to the situation seems to be something you can't always design for and could end up a liability.
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Postby FOG3 » Tue Dec 23, 2008 10:30 am

Spokavriel wrote: Constrained by design and not pilot sounds like allot of design isues will come up making it so Ranma could get frustrated by the Mech not keeping up with his skills because it was optimized but still couldn't be as versatile as he is use to fighting.

Adapting to the situation seems to be something you can't always design for and could end up a liability.
Well it's like this:

Anything that isn't fuel and disposable ordinance is dead weight. The more dead weight you have the harder it is for your craft to maneuver and get up to speed. On a Mech dead weight is going to be largely the armor and robot parts, although things like RADAR will also be a factor. In other words you can make a light frame that'd really be able to turn and burn like no other, but it'd be the last Mech you'd want to put in a boxing match. On the opposite side one could make a mecha that would be king in physical strength and armor, but would no be particularly maneuverable all things being equal.

You also have to size your engine to fuel load and endurance. The bigger your engine the more thrust you can produce, but the more fuel it must consume. Note that fuel and combat ordinance do impact performance. There are significant differences related to wing loadings on real aircraft, which is why you'll almost never see those advertisized max loadouts in practice.

You can also use high quality control and lots of routine maintenance as a tradeoff to allow you to push the piece of equipment to operate at the limits of what's feasible. Or in other words you can design your parts to fail quicker allowing lighter parts and higher performance, but these as a consequence need to be routinely replaced. Any craft down for maintenance isn't up to fight, and is a very real consideration. As is the pure raw logistics costs.

The only way you're not on the same playing field with your choice of design trade offs is if you have a significant technological advantage. Or if we weren't talking machines a significant advantage in capabilities on all opponents. That kind of thing happens like Alexander the Greats modifications to the Phalanx with much longer spears, but tends to get adapted to fairly quickly in the great scheme of things. About the only way it can't involves the side with the technological advantage also having such an extreme military and economic advantage it can really just curb stomp whoever it wants if it really wanted to.

"Good at everythings" as a general rule suck at everything. The F-111 debacle whose only saving grace was it could take a reasonable payload a long ways being a relatively recent example. The F-18 and F-35 which could be argued in a similar light have the power and maneuverability, but are lacking in terms of range or endurance, making them poorly suited for missions fulfilled by aircraft such as the A-10 Thunderbolt II aka Warthog and S-3 Viking, which are top in their fields of Close Air Support and Anti-Submarine Warfare respectively.

I personally find it ironic you're arguing Ranma's flexible and adaptable, while simultaneously arguing he needs a significant unfair advantage in all parameters to be "flexible and adaptable." Kind of a complete and utter vote of no confidence on what you're advocating. Especially as one can always select the equipment to be used for a strike package a whole lot easier then they can overhaul their physique.
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Postby Spokavriel » Tue Dec 23, 2008 11:59 am

Not exactly, what I meant is that I don't think a mecha under the design rules you have in that type would be able to be built light and strong enough to both keep up with him and still have the durability to survive the kind of forces he would end up applying. And as you pointed out with controls breaking etc. when you want to save on weight, I just think there might be a better match.

You have to admit Ranma never does think of what kind of damage any situation would cause to himself. He's just confident he will win. Even when he loses he goes back and fights again. But translating that to a Mech situation I begin to wonder how he would survive that first loss. While he could make adaptations to optimize for that second fight how much harder would that be if there isn't a surviving Mech to adapt?
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Postby Siden » Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:27 pm

I think you guys are going about this the wrong way. There is no one perfect mecha for Ranma, but rather a perfect mecha for Ranma dependant on whichever universe (and time-period) you are crossing-over / merging with. Just narrowing it down to one overall is an excercise in futility.

For example, J. Austin Wilde's The Saotome Gambit is a fusion of Ranma 1/2 and Battletech. In Battletech, the perfect mech for Ranma would be something in the light or lower-medium class, fast and manoeuvrable, and with decent firepower. Units like the Phoenix Hawk or Wraith.

If we are talking Gundam, then the Kampfer mentioned above or something similar from another era / series would work best. With Full Metal Panic, then you would want to give him an M9 or an ARX-7.



Spokavriel wrote:Not exactly, what I meant is that I don't think a mecha under the design rules you have in that type would be able to be built light and strong enough to both keep up with him and still have the durability to survive the kind of forces he would end up applying. And as you pointed out with controls breaking etc. when you want to save on weight, I just think there might be a better match.

Since Ranma 1/2 is a fantasy/martial arts series at its base, then if you wanted to incorporate mecha but keep the feel of the Ranma-verse you would need to pull from the more fantastical mecha productions out there. In other words, the "Super Robot" genre. Other wise, as in the case of the "Real Robot" genre, you will be constrained by the limits of the technology. With super-robot, there is no reason that the machine can not keep up with Ranma. With real-robot, you either have to tone down Ranma's abilities to where he can not take these things out on his own, or find some other plot reason for him to use a mecha.
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Postby FOG3 » Tue Dec 23, 2008 6:02 pm

EDIT: Removing prior content as it appears it might be styming this threads progression and we've played that whole game to its conclusion before if that is an issue.

I'm only making a point of the design considerations because it helps to emphasize why the MS-18E is the way it is and a good design, given the OP specified Gundams. Ranma 1/2's attitude as a series doesn't encourage such nuking of things and it's not really that necessary for these kind of series. Fanfiction isn't exactly a research report.
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Postby Jomasten » Thu Dec 25, 2008 3:32 am

Um, don't constrain yourselves too much on just Gundam. It was just me throwing out an example. I myself would contribute something, but I feel ashamed that my mecha anime knowledge is week... :(
So I've rather been busy looking up other mechs. Really, I've also been constraining myself on what looks cool and appropriate for Ranma. I should look up mecha functionality as well. As well as including Ranma 1/2 elements into my research.
I've yet to find any specifics on the Kampfer, but I find that the Gundams in 'Mobile Fighter G Gundam' seems one way to go.
Oh, and the Apotheosized Yadabiout still kicks a**.
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Postby Not-Going-to-Tell » Thu Dec 25, 2008 9:30 pm

Jomasten wrote:Oh, and the Apotheosized Yadabiout still kicks a**.


The pilot isn't nicknamed 'Kenshiro' by the fans for nothing after all.

Sorry, nothing else to add.
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Postby Jomasten » Thu Dec 25, 2008 11:14 pm

Uh, why? What does Kenshiro mean in English?
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Postby Spokavriel » Thu Dec 25, 2008 11:51 pm

Does anyone know the Kanji for Kenshiro? Because my guess would place it meaning something like blade white. Probably meaning something similar to a pure sword.
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Postby Not-Going-to-Tell » Fri Dec 26, 2008 12:34 am

Jomasten wrote:Uh, why? What does Kenshiro mean in English?


Spokavriel wrote: Does anyone know the Kanji for Kenshiro? Because my guess would place it meaning something like blade white. Probably meaning something similar to a pure sword.


You look a little to closely into it. He's named after another character. I think you know the one. 'You're already dead'? 'Fist of the North Star'? That Kenshiro?
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Postby Siden » Fri Dec 26, 2008 12:50 am

In other words, he's so badass you might as well stay home and hope he doesn't come within a lightyear of you.
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Postby Spokavriel » Fri Dec 26, 2008 12:54 am

Sorry. It's just he asked what it meant not who it was.
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Postby Siden » Fri Dec 26, 2008 10:34 am

Spokavriel wrote: Sorry. It's just he asked what it meant not who it was.

Ah.
Since his name is appears to only be written in katakana, then the translation of his name is open to interpretation (if it is even intended to be translateable. Without the proper kanji characters or hiragana, it becomes guess work).
If you break it up into two parts, "ken" and "shiro", you get "sword" and "castle" respectively. There are plenty of other ways to translate it.
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