Westernisation: Good or Bad?

[Cyber_Skaarj]

This little question came up after reading yet another fic with loads of Western references in it: Is Westernisation in anime fan fics a good thing or bad thing?

Allow me to elaborate on what I mean by Westernisation. You see, while reading fan fics (mostly Ranma or Sailor Moon ones) set in Japan, I often come across times where the characters are watching Western movies or TV shows, reading Western books, ordering food from Western food chains, and so on.

As an example, here's a little paragraph from the fic 7 Days in the Life of My Family by Hotaru Tomoe, written by LokiLeysmith:

Setsuna-mama, being the Senshi of time, was kind of funny that way with movies or TV shows that dealt with time travel. She either laughed out loud at them, or absolutely hated them, with hardly any middle ground. One exception was a show called Quantum Leap. She said she liked it because it was an ingenious blending of sci-fi, drama, and comedy. Michiru-mama thought it was because she had a crush on the show's star, Scott Bakula. Setsuna-mama denies this, but still manages to watch and record his latest show Enterprise, every week without fail, despite the fact that she doesn't think much of Star Trek either.

So, good or bad thing? Discuss.

[Zwzn]

Doesn't Japan import some shows, and DUB at least some of them at least? I thought that was done with Transformers, and other shows and movies.

[Cyber_Skaarj]

Transformers was originally based off of a Japanese toy line anyway (two toy lines actually).

But the point is, while they may very well dub some shows or movies, I very much doubt they would have to the extent that many fics portray. Take the above quote for example. Shows such as Quantum Leap or Enterprise are so full of Western customs, mannerisms and references that I believe much of what goes on in them would be totally incomprehensible to a Japanese audience. Therefore it would be highly unlikely for any of the characters in the fic to have seen such shows.

[rmt]

Setsuna-mama, being the Senshi of time, was kind of funny that way with movies or TV shows that dealt with time travel. She either laughed out loud at them, or absolutely hated them, with hardly any middle ground. One exception was a show called Quantum Leap. She said she liked it because it was an ingenious blending of sci-fi, drama, and comedy. Michiru-mama thought it was because she had a crush on the show's star, Scott Bakula. Setsuna-mama denies this, but still manages to watch and record his latest show Enterprise, every week without fail, despite the fact that she doesn't think much of Star Trek either.

*smack* Bad writer!

No, I don't like references to western shows, movies or pop culture in fanfiction, unless it was an actual canon character trait. Passages like this are really jarring, and take me straight out of that nice little anime / manga world that the author has worked so hard to recreate.

[Cyber_Skaarj]

I actually came across a part in that fic where Hotaru mentions Hulk Hogan (yes, the famous wrestler). Now, while at first I thought "how the hell would a Japanese girl know about a Western wrestler", a look at his wikipedia page shows that Hogan toured the New Japan Pro Wrestling circuit in his ealry career, even earning the title Ichiban (Number One) from it's fans. So it seems that even with the bad amount of references in the fic, the author made an unintentional good and relevant reference.

Just goes to show that there are exceptions when it comes to Western things in fics (McDonalds is another one by the way, as I've seen branches of it in pictures of Tokyo). This still doesn't excuse blatantly obvious times when Western things should not be in fics though.

[TerraEpon]

It depends on what it is. Stuff like Disney (obviously) or The Simpsons are popular enough in Japan that a character watching those would be fine.


-Joshua

[Cheb]

, ordering food from Western food chains, and so on.

Remember the scene from ep. 6 (?) where Ranma and Akane eat hamburgers. There were no such scene in the manga.

So, the Westernization started from anime.

Shows such as Quantum Leap or Enterprise are so full of Western customs, mannerisms and references that I believe much of what goes on in them would be totally incomprehensible to a Japanese audience.

The customs and mannerisms aren't that scary really. Matter is if it gets a good translation or not.

[camk4evr]

I'm not sure about Quantum Leap but Star Trek and other TV shows, movies, comic books, and novels are fairly popular outside of North America so it's possible that Setsuna would watch Star Trek.

[Heaven's Deamon]

Plus given one of the common depictions of Sentsuna is of a very rich woman, and the fannon of her having been around since the Silver Millenium and been present in various parts of history, for her to be able to import and watch shows in their original language would make sense as well.

[Cyber_Skaarj]

True, but I only gave that Sailor Moon fic as an example. Things like that seem to appear in every other fic that I read, and it's quite - as rmt pointed out - jarring to see that sort of thing in any fic.

[claymade]

I think the cringe-worthy thing is even more general than a question of "Western-ness", actually. The same pain occurs when people in the far future just happen to find emotional resonance with songs/movies/etc. that happen to be trendy at this moment in our time.

The problem isn't really even whether the character could plausibly have gotten experience with said pop-culture item. It's the mere fact that it becomes so obvious that this choice is about the writer, and not the character. That's the awful thing.

[Zwzn]

But the point is, while they may very well dub some shows or movies, I very much doubt they would have to the extent that many fics portray. Take the above quote for example. Shows such as Quantum Leap or Enterprise are so full of Western customs, mannerisms and references that I believe much of what goes on in them would be totally incomprehensible to a Japanese audience. Therefore it would be highly unlikely for any of the characters in the fic to have seen such shows.

So, because anime is full of Japanese costums in it, and I who live in the mid western USA, and have never studied more then I ever had to for school about Japan can't like or understand anime? That makes no sense.

I think it matters more does it make sense for the character, and the story.

Maybe I'm just strange as I have never fit in.

[Siden]

Bad.
It is bad enough that most writers do not seem to know anything about the setting they are writing in (and I don't just mean the plot and characters. Hello, there are maps and stuff online), but it irks me when they add random bits of American culture, even moreso when the characters act entirely like Americans.

When lived in Japan, I rarely saw much in the way of the westernization that Cybes is speaking about. People just didn't make American-based referances. They make Japanese ones.
If you want a good example or two, pick up some of the Manga translated by Del-Ray, like Clamp's xxxHolic. They leave in the original Japanese jokes and cultural referances instead of replacing them with ones that English readers will automatically understand.

Yes there was MacDonalds, Pizza Hut and KFC (the food is cooked WAY better there than here), but those are really the only ones I ever found. Everyone knows about Disney, but that doesn't meen they'll be quoting in their heads or something.

Western customs, mannerisms and references that I believe much of what goes on in them would be totally incomprehensible to a Japanese audience

This is somewhat to mostly true. Just like you average N. American can't understand the Japanese (culture and language), the average Japanese can't really understand what we're all about. It is a completely different system of beliefs and values on top of just being a completely different culture.

[Tovath]

I think it comes down to the skill of the writer like anything else. If it's a good story I will hardly notice a western reference, but having said that an important part of writing is doing your research if you are just putting American things in because you don't feel looking up how they would do it in Japan then you are just being lazy

[Atlan]

Back when i was in high-school, I had a japanese friend. We talked a lot, and swaped anime.

One thing he was suprised at was how far behind Japan New Zealand was in terms of TV shows. In Japan, they had finished Star Treck: Voyger just before he left. 4 years later, they showed that episode in NZ.

So i always find the references to western TV in fics viable.