Reincarnation & doublet system in Aa! Megami-sama!

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Reincarnation & doublet system in Aa! Megami-sama!

Postby Crescent Pulsar R » Tue Apr 19, 2011 6:41 pm

In regard to Belldandy and Velsper, something either doesn't add up or I'm missing something, because the latter's punishment (reincarnation into a cat) doesn't make any sense when you consider the role that the doublet system plays. So, I thought I'd get some of your thoughts in order to see which of your ideas would be most accepted as an explanation.

Anyway, to the basics: if one of two of those bound by the doublet system die, the other dies. Knowledge of who is bound to whom is strictly prohibited, their memories of their encounter during the process forcibly forgotten. This is to ensure mutually-shared destruction between gods and demons, and that neither side knows who to sacrifice if they desire a particular god or demon dead.

While Belldandy is made to forget Velsper after all is said and done, others aren't (Keiichi and Peorth, for instance). While one can trust those who know about it to remain silent, there's still the risk that it can be forcibly extracted... Then there's Velsper's reincarnated form (again, a cat); which, while it had been intended for him to be an ordinary cat (which is an important detail to consider), even with his demon power still intact (at least to some degree) he seems rather vulnerable. If he's still connected with Belldandy via the doublet system (which, due to Keiichi's comment at the end of the story, could be the case), wouldn't that be rather counterintuitive? Suppose they're no longer connected; wouldn't that mean that Belldandy season would be open? The only logical resolution that I could come up with, was that Belldandy would have to conjoin souls with someone else, who has a similar means (power/ability/et cetera) of keeping themselves alive. There's the option that those not in the know are left to assume that the status quo remains the same, but that lacks both intelligence and professionalism, since secrets have ways of becoming not-so-secret (as illustrated by the story where this all takes place). It would be one thing if someone found out while Velsper is still a (complete?) demon, but while he's not his life is more easily compromised, regardless of whose protection he might be under.

So... Author flub, or am I just being an idiot, over-thinking it, both, and/or something else? ;/
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Re: Reincarnation & doublet system in Aa! Megami-sama!

Postby frice2000 » Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:02 am

Interesting questions but really I think the whole problem with the doublet system is that it as a whole as we've been presented it doesn't make sense. If you have a new god or goddess then a new demon or demoness has to be found or else the system is off balance. Thus, you're going to have a pretty damned good idea of who is attached to who in such a system for new entrants. Now either both heaven and hell are extremely static, which is plausible but seems slightly unlikely, then the system as held doesn't really work out all that well. It'd make a lot more sense if at random times the participants therein are swapped around with new partners on a complete basis every hundred years or so. Would alleviate this problem nicely.
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Re: Reincarnation & doublet system in Aa! Megami-sama!

Postby Crescent Pulsar R » Wed Apr 20, 2011 6:27 am

A double shuffle? ;p

Yeah, there is that. I don't think that things are static, though, since we know that the three Norns have parents and we've seen both Belldandy and Urd as children. Skuld growing into her power also illustrates that the population of the gods (at the very least, if not also the demons) likely increases like humanity does, with or without ascension/apotheosis.

As far as that goes, I suppose one way of handling it (if those bound together by the doublet system can't be changed) would require sequestering the new gods and demons in a safe place until there's a large enough group on both sides to introduce them to the doublet system. I figure a one in ten chance is good enough odds for it to work. The only problem is that the paired groups would be generational, so if someone wanted another someone dead from a particular generation, and are willing to kill a small group of their own to do them in, well... It certainly beats killing absolutely randomly with no guarantee of success.

Still, none of this accounts for the reasoning behind Velsper's punishment, and why no one present (other than Belldandy) was made to forget who he was paired with. If he had all of his powers stripped, as it had been intended, that would have really put Belldandy in a dangerous position, which is both unfair and makes no sense (in part because this is decided by the "enemy," and seemingly allowed by her own).
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Re: Reincarnation & doublet system in Aa! Megami-sama!

Postby WG_Writer » Fri Apr 29, 2011 9:23 pm

Yes but there in lies the trick, I see possibilities:

a) The ultimate force is now probably protecting the neo-cat (along with a group of goddesses) so he is less of a weakness
b) The doublet system does keep both sides in line but remember both Kami-sama and Hild-sama agree with it. Bell is under her close watch and she seems more interested in Keichi for very important reasons. i.e. eventually he will need a doublet too.
c) we know for an absolute fact that Urd and Mara grew up together and Urd spent time while young with Bell before assending fully so there must be either "Urd is unique" factor or "unpaired" members of both sides have a hands off truce rule, especially for children.
d) Finally there is the simplest answer of all. The Lie. Not everyone is paired. This allows for the higher ups to simply say Bell is now "Dealt with" and "no longer in danger" Because for all that there is for all the ballance that there is worked towards accidents do happen. and both sides need would not likely have even numbers. Not to mention attrition. Think of Mara and how she was sealed away for a while in a CD. either both sides are doing this or the Demons are losing numbers. Thus a "system" is setup that "Pairs" members of each side and we only know for sure of one such pair, and even then how do we know the system actually works? do we ever see it proven it works? Death is simply not done in the series and as such the simplest answer of the "Lie" could in fact be the truth. they both enter a room then leave with their memory whipped. convienent that includes everything about how they are bonded, and why no one has found a way to break it. Even the neo-cat who remembered was a child at the time, and would have been deliberately trained to not understand the bond process itself thus would not see it as a mere illusion. A Bond that cannot be broken if it never exists. And so I say again Every aspect is a lie, after if the lie is not the truth and the doublet does exist then things could be worse then imaginable even for the demons.
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Re: Reincarnation & doublet system in Aa! Megami-sama!

Postby Crescent Pulsar R » Sat Apr 30, 2011 3:04 am

There's nothing to indicate that the ultimate force plays a role in anything beyond the terms of granted wishes. None that I can remember, anyway... As if my memory's reliable. ;/

I figure that any plan to make Keiichi a god in the future is more apparent with someone around to protect him, making Belldandy's presence (and anyone else's) more antagonistic by nature within that context, because the company makes him special, something of potential interest.

I don't recall anything regarding ascension. For all we know, Urd was under the custody of one of the parents since birth. She could have always been a goddess and chose against becoming a demon ever since she had been old enough to understand how such a choice could be made. She has to make a constant effort to not love her mother, after all.

The problem with the lie is that, unlike the truth (which only requires open evidence), it needs to be supported, and at times reinforced. The resolution at the end of the story was very counterproductive to the integrity of a lie.
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Re: Reincarnation & doublet system in Aa! Megami-sama!

Postby camk4evr » Sat Apr 30, 2011 1:13 pm

I'm not that familiar with Aa! Megami-sama! (I've never really cared for it to be honest) so I have to ask: Does the doublet system apply to all god and demons or does it just apply to the really powerfull/dangerous ones?

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Shinji: Well suppose some mysterious entities were attacking, and
Asuka:Oh please, Baka Shinji, that sounds like some cheap, pseudo-profound T.V. show. Low budget. Ambiguous ending.
-Asuka and Shinji discussing why you would build a giant robot. NGE: Shinji Ikari Raising Project Vol.6
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Re: Reincarnation & doublet system in Aa! Megami-sama!

Postby Crescent Pulsar R » Sat Apr 30, 2011 8:00 pm

It would seem to apply to every god and demon. When Lind "attacked" Hild in the bathroom, then asked her why she didn't attack, Hild's response would indicate that she (at the very least) believes that even the leader of the demons (herself) is subject to the doublet system. And if someone of her position is, then surely everyone of lesser significance would be, too. The only possible exception might be the leader of the gods, since he has control of the Yggdrasil, which has so far been illustrated as being of vastly more importance than the demon's computer, Nidhogg.

In the end, Fujishima leaves a lot of things unclear, even outside of this topic concerning the doublet system. I'm of the opinion that he's probably the type to make changes without too much thought for whether they contradict something in the past. He probably thought that the doublet system would be a good idea for a story, without really thinking it through. The current storyline might shed some more light on how some of these things work, and why, so maybe we'll just have to wait and see if any of them are properly addressed and/or fully developed/explained. I mean, we finally got a hint of what demons and gods might naturally look like in their native dimension, after we were told that they had to do something in order for them to be seen in the third dimension some thirty-plus volumes ago.
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