Temple of Ranma's Sailor Senshi Seifuku

Something I've always been wondering about for a fanfiction I'm doing, how exactly is it that Ukyo could possibly get over Ranma and even consider the idea of thinking about anyone else? It's just that it seems to me that she's really the most genuinely focused on getting Ranma (Shampoo or Kodachi at least I could sort of see considering someone else they find just as good) and for her to do so, what with him being what her life revolved around for an entire ten years.

Any thoughts?

Don't know if this is really any use, but I correspond with an author who claims that Ukyo's ties to Ranma are based, essentially "in the past"; she clings to the past they shared and to the memories of what that, and that is why she's so obsessed with Ranma. If she could let go of her past and move into the present/future, she could get over Ranma.

If you're curious, he also claims that Akane's ties are based in the present (she has neither previous ties to him, nor has she bound her future to him), which means she could break off from Ranma with very little trouble, and Shampoo's ties are based in the future, which is why she's unlikely to abandon him.

And interestingly, if you think about it, it could be said that Kodachi's ties are based on momemts...

Anyone wanna make an OMG crossover out of that?


-Joshua

The absolute most important thing that has to be done first, before Ukyo can do any real soul searching or get over her obsession with Ranma, is that her engagement to him has to honorably settled. How it can be settled in any way other than marrying him, I don't know, as I'm no expert on Japanese culture or honor. Repaying the cost of the stolen yatai is obvious, but how does one repay ten years of suffering and loneliness? Excluding seppuku that is, since Ranma won't do that, and Ukyu wouldn't let him. Even if she willingly dropped the engagment, she would still be dishonored, and miserable, feeling that she had wasted ten years of her life. And the guilt would eat at Ranma, making him unhappy too.

Out of all the fiances, Ukyo has the most to lose; her honor, her dignity and pride, her hopes and plans for the future, and possibly even her home, name, and her friggin' femininity depending on how crazy and sexist the author decides to portray her father as being. I simply can't see any easy way for Ukyo to give up on Ranma without a LOT of angst, anger, and bitterness; pretty much all her hopes and dreams depend upon marrying him.

That's why it always pisses me off when someone carelessly pairs her off with Konatsu or Ryoga, and simply pretends as if her chasing Ranma was actually just an ordinary crush, and all the consequences for failing to marry him just disappear. There is nothing between her and Ryoga or Konatsu! Her and Ryoga may have once been friends once (though I think co-conspiritors is more accurate), but after the tunnel of lost love they had a falling out and never speak again. And there is absolutely no evidence that she returns Konatsu's feelings. Hell, she took advantage of his crush to make him work for criminally low wages! In fact, pairing her with pretty much anyone but Ranma is hard to pull off because of her obsession with him. If you're going to do so, you'd better include a lot of character development between them to make it believable.

Er... sorry for getting a bit off topic there, just felt the need to rant.

One key to remember is that Ukyou is not... stable.

For years she wanted to kill/punish/mangle Ranma. She had made it into a lifelong quest and had prepared a massive griddle and other traps.

And then when she's fighting Ranma... ONE comment Ranma saying that she's cute...

And Ukyou does a full 180.

I recommended everyone find the first showing of Ukyou in the manga. Or at least a good summary of it. It's very informative into the character and her background.

Jupiah wrote:The absolute most important thing that has to be done first, before Ukyo can do any real soul searching or get over her obsession with Ranma, is that her engagement to him has to honorably settled. How it can be settled in any way other than marrying him, I don't know...

Well, beating the crap out of the involved parties was all she initially seemed to be interested in. Getting married wasn't even part of the plan--that was due to the resurgence of her childhood love for him due to his complement.

Jupiah wrote:Out of all the fiances, Ukyo has the most to lose; her honor, her dignity and pride, her hopes and plans for the future, and possibly even her home, name, and her friggin' femininity depending on how crazy and sexist the author decides to portray her father as being.

Any of that related to her father is, ultimately, fanon. In her actual narration, she describes the disavowal of her femininity, the decision to get revenge, etc. as entirely her decision.

claymade wrote:Well, beating the crap out of the involved parties was all she initially seemed to be interested in. Getting married wasn't even part of the plan--that was due to the resurgence of her childhood love for him due to his complement.

I may be wrong, but I was left with the impression that she had to either kill him or marry him, and leaving Genma only beaten was because she found she couldn't go through with murder. She planned to take as much vengeance against them as she could stomache, then live with her remaining dishonor. When she saw a way to avoid both killing and dishonor, namely marrying Ranma (after realizing he hadn't abandoned her on purpose, making it a much more attractive choice then it was previously) she latched onto that option like a drowning man to a live-preserver. I think her decision was primarily motivated by desperation and childhood infatuation. I'm not really a huge fan of the 'Crazy Stalker Ukyo' fanon.

claymade wrote:Any of that related to her father is, ultimately, fanon. In her actual narration, she describes the disavowal of her femininity, the decision to get revenge, etc. as entirely her decision.

Please keep in mind that the following statement is my opinion, as there is no solid evidence to directly support it:
Maybe it was her decision, but I believe her father must of have been abusive and sexist to some degree (though exactly how much is unknown). A pre-pubescent girl, even one so cruelly rejected, just does not make such extreme changes to her life and behavior entirely by herself. Maybe her father called her a failure to her face, maybe she heard her father complaining to his friends about his 'worthless daughter' and how he wished he had had a son, maybe her father told her too many stories archaic bedtime stories of revenge. In my opinion, her decisions were heavily influenced by her father. Even if she really did make those decisions on her own, I doubt her father tried very hard to talk her out of it. Even if, as a martial artist, he agreed with revenge, I can't imagine any man that would allow such a young daughter to 'renouce her femininity' to be a good father.

Jupiah wrote:Maybe it was her decision, but I believe her father must of have been abusive and sexist to some degree (though exactly how much is unknown). A pre-pubescent girl, even one so cruelly rejected, just does not make such extreme changes to her life and behavior entirely by herself. Maybe her father called her a failure to her face, maybe she heard her father complaining to his friends about his 'worthless daughter' and how he wished he had had a son, maybe her father told her too many stories archaic bedtime stories of revenge. In my opinion, her decisions were heavily influenced by her father.

Being called a failure did help motivate her, yes. The flashback does make this clear. However, it was the mockery of her grade-school peers that is identified as that cause. Her father is never once mentioned in that context, while her classmates are the ones that are highlighted.

Jupiah wrote:Even if she really did make those decisions on her own, I doubt her father tried very hard to talk her out of it. Even if, as a martial artist, he agreed with revenge, I can't imagine any man that would allow such a young daughter to 'renouce her femininity' to be a good father.

True, perhaps he shouldn't have accepted her lifestyle choices quite so easily. Anyway, that's beside the point. The point isn't how good a parent he is in general. The point is that her revenge and lack of femininity are both her idea. The idea that they were required of her by her father's demands is a fanon invention. There's no evidence for it--nor for the fact that he would exact "consequences" on her should she one day decide to give up on Ranma and settle down with someone else.

Jupiah wrote:I may be wrong, but I was left with the impression that she had to either kill him or marry him, and leaving Genma only beaten was because she found she couldn't go through with murder.

Never once stated or implied. There's no sign that she relents--in fact, her message to Ranma implies the opposite, that she was essentially satisfied with her vengeance on Genma: "Ranma! Next it's your turn to pay!"--accompanied by laughter.

There's no sign that she was actually out to kill them, and since it was her initiative in the first place, there's no "had to" about it beyond that.

claymade wrote:Being called a failure did help motivate her, yes. The flashback does make this clear. However, it was the mockery of her grade-school peers that is identified as that cause. Her father is never once mentioned in that context, while her classmates are the ones that are highlighted.

Okay, being mocked by your peers is a good reason to swear vengeance against the one who humiliated you, but it doesn't explain renouncing your gender. This is why the fanon idea that Ukyo's father is extremely sexist exists, to provide some kind of justification for her dressing as and acting like a man. Cause, if he isn't, than it doesn't really make any sense.

claymade wrote:The point is that her revenge and lack of femininity are both her idea. The idea that they were required of her by her father's demands is a fanon invention. There's no evidence for it--nor for the fact that he would exact "consequences" on her should she one day decide to give up on Ranma and settle down with someone else.

I'm not saying he required her to make those choices at all. He could have easily just critized her and insulted her until she felt it was the only way to gain her father's approval. She would still claim the vows as her own (because they technically were) but it was hardly her initiative; her father manipulated her emotions.

However, I admit that there is no evidence to directly support this claim other than the fact that it makes a lot more sense than her doing it entirely on her own or against her father's wishes. Also, just about every martial artist in Ranma 1/2 has abusive parents (or none at all), so it makes sense to assume Ukyo did as well, since there is no evidence otherwise.

The reason that the fanon idea that Ukyo's father 'forced' (although I'd say emotionally blackmailed) her to pursue vengeance and give up her femininity is popular is because the only other real option is that she's crazy. Obviously, Ukyo fans choose to believe the former. I'm not trying to push this theory as canon, I'm just saying it's plausible, it makes sense and it portrays her actions in a much more sympathetic light.

claymade wrote:Never once stated or implied. There's no sign that she relents--in fact, her message to Ranma implies the opposite, that she was essentially satisfied with her vengeance on Genma: "Ranma! Next it's your turn to pay!"--accompanied by laughter.

So, her idea for vengeance, that she trained for 10 years for, is to give them both a minor beating? That's... pretty damn pitiful. What exactly was she hoping to accomplish? I can see why so many fanfic authors choose to write her as stopping short of murder because of her conscious. Maybe she really is crazy.

One thing I would like to point out: even before the engagement, Ukyo dressed and acted like a boy. Given that, and how her "feminity" had caused her to suffer such an "emotional wound", vowing to give it up whilst pursuing revenge doesn't seem that out of character- it's basically her way of saying "I've been battered but I've gotten tougher, now no one is gonna beat me like that again".

Then again, I might just be talking rubbish. It's hard to say.

Jupiah wrote:Okay, being mocked by your peers is a good reason to swear vengeance against the one who humiliated you, but it doesn't explain renouncing your gender. This is why the fanon idea that Ukyo's father is extremely sexist exists, to provide some kind of justification for her dressing as and acting like a man. Cause, if he isn't, than it doesn't really make any sense.

Why not? The whole point was that she was (supposedly) a failure as a woman--that she couldn't keep her fiance. That was how Ranma hurt her, that was exactly what they were mocking her for, and that was why she swore that she would "never love another man", because his betrayal "made it impossible for [her] to ever again embrace [her] own femininity."

So, her idea for vengeance, that she trained for 10 years for, is to give them both a minor beating? That's... pretty damn pitiful. What exactly was she hoping to accomplish? I can see why so many fanfic authors choose to write her as stopping short of murder because of her conscious. Maybe she really is crazy.

I prefer the term "charmingly idiosyncratic."

I mean, seriously, this is the Ranmaverse. Getting to a school's freaking bread first is enough make people chase each other across continents to beat the other person up. Similarly, Ukyo's male mirror-character stakes wearing a mask for the rest of his life on a loss in a fight, and spends ten years obsessively training to beat up her for it.

Relatively speaking, I think she's fairly sane. She just A) wanted revenge really badly, but B) wasn't interested in going so far as to kill them. Then C) ended up falling for Ranma when he restored her sense of desirability to her--as evidenced by her blush and embarrassed protests.