Temple of Ranma's Sailor Senshi Seifuku

Posted: **Tue Dec 26, 2006 5:19 am**

I've got a fic idea that I'm in the process of outlining, but determining its workableness seems to be hanging on some details of how the big "reset button" that Usagi pushed after defeating Beryl worked. MoonPrincess.com claims that Usagi actually rewound time (link) when discussing the event, but then in the following section, especially the footnote they make it sound more like she just resurrected the Senshi and wiped their memories (link). I'm trying to make sense of the conflicting reports, especially in regard to certain factors:
Is there any direct evidence in the anime itself that Usagi's wish actually affected the date?
Is there any evidence that it affected the memories of anyone besides the Senshi/Mamoru? Do other people still remember that the Sailor Senshi existed, or remember anything else that occurred during that period, such as youma attacks?
What about the effects of any of the Senshi's actions? If they taught someone the meaning of life and love and happiness in one episode, or got them a job or whatever, would the reset wipe that out?
I realize that, depending on the answers to some of the questions, others may or may not be answerable. I'm just trying to nail down the precise effects of the wish as nearly as I can.

Posted: **Tue Dec 26, 2006 6:35 am**

claymade wrote:Is there any direct evidence in the anime itself that Usagi's wish actually affected the date?

Just after the reset there's a shot of Usagi being chewed out for her test scores by Ikkuko. It is apparently the same one that she got into trouble about in the very first episode.

Posted: **Tue Dec 26, 2006 5:12 pm**

There's no proof it's the same test though. And Umaro-Naru are still together. And Usgai-Ami apparently had met sometime (when they otherwise hadn't in Ami's intro). True those 'could' have happened between the end of S1 and the beginning of S2...but eh...
-Joshua

Posted: **Wed Dec 27, 2006 4:10 am**

My understanding is that they redid one grade because of the reset. Don't they have the same teacher as season 1? Any diferences I blame on the reset.

Exact Dates:
1. Start of Grade 8 (April): Before Episode 1.
2. May 23rd: Episode 11.
3. May 30th: Episode 12.
4. Summer vacation: Episode 20.
5. August 22nd (newspaper article): Sometime before Episode 27.
6. Winter season (snow): Episode 41.
7. Hanami (between last two weeks of March and first two weeks of April in Tokyo): Episode 51.
8. Summer vacation: Episode 67.
9. Christmas season: Episode 78.
10. Start of Grade 9 (April): After Episode 88 and before Episode 90.
11. June 30th (Usagi Tsukino's Birthday): Episodes 101 and 102.
12. Summer vacation: Episode 105.
13. Winter season (snow): Episode 122.
14. Summer vacation: Episode 144.
15. January 15th (Coming-of-Age Day): Episode 160.
16. February 14th (Valentine's Day): Pretty Soldier Sailor Moon Super S Movie.
17. Start of Grade 10 (April): Around Episode 167.
18. June 15th: Episode 180.
19. Summer vacation: Episode 183.
20. Between September 1st and 3rd: Episode 184
21. September 30th: Episode 189.
22. Around October 19th: Episode 190.
Official sources would have us believe that Episodes 1 to 89 take place during the Grade 8 school semester, Episodes 90 to 166 during the Grade 9 school semester, and Episodes 167 to 200 during the Grade 10 school semester. Now, allow me to clarify exactly what this means in relative terms for Usagi and company:
I. Since they had two summer vacations while in Grades 8 and 9, summer comes no less than twice a year.
II. Winter also comes no less than twice a year.
III. Hanami (a period in spring during which cherry trees blossom) either occurs more than once a year or the entire battle with the Dark Kingdom lasted for just under two weeks since school starts in April. Though since we've previously established that summer and winter come twice a year, spring probably does, too.
IV. The Sailor Soldiers kicked Master Pharaoh 90's ass during their Christmas vacation and wasted the entire Dead Moon Circus before February 14th of the following year, while somehow still finding the time to study for their high school entrance exams. And you thought you had some rough semesters in junior high.
Yeah. That all makes perfect sense, now doesn't it?

http://www.genvid.com/lunarch/faqyou/continuity.html

Posted: **Wed Dec 27, 2006 5:15 pm**

I've seen more than one fanfic that make the continuity work with everything happening -- Refugees by Mark Latus is a good example.
-Joshua

Posted: **Thu Dec 28, 2006 3:16 am**

Hmmm... Okay, so its been done both ways in fanfiction. So there's always that out if I ran out of wiggle room... Good to know.
The amount of time spent in eighth grade definitely seems to indicate a time shift to me, but as mentioned, the persistance of Umaro-Naru seems to indicate that the reset wasn't a complete one. Also, glancing through the site that Zwzn showed, it mentioned other changes from the original timeline as well--such as all the Scouts being present at the start of eighth grade, as opposed to filtering in as they did the first time 'round.
So yeah, whatever happened, it seems it wasn't a complete restart--one way or another, some ammount of changes made during the "lost" period were carried through.
At the moment, it's looking (to me) from the chronology listed like the wish essentially transposed people back through time, keeping the basic setup of the time she made the wish, but projecting that back to the start and rearanging memories to fit, erasing all memory of the Dark Kingdom. That's... annoying for my fic, but not as insurmountable as a complete reset would have been. Basically, I'll have to contrive a way for others who aren't scouts (the NWC, in this case) to come to remember details from the period independently. But if the reset isn't complete, I think I can finagle it reasonably.
In any case, thanks much for pointing all that info out to me!

Posted: **Thu Dec 28, 2006 5:13 am**

Could use some deja vu triggered memory recognition. Or even not have it effect some characters either to range from primary target area(juban) or due to their highly trained bodies recognizing an outside influence and overcomming it in a short time. Which would then lead to questions of the source of such wide spread memory loss, especially for Happosai and Cologne who probably wouldnt be comfortable with the implications.

Posted: **Sat Dec 30, 2006 1:41 am**

claymade wrote:Hmmm... Okay, so its been done both ways in fanfiction. So there's always that out if I ran out of wiggle room... Good to know.
The amount of time spent in eighth grade definitely seems to indicate a time shift to me, but as mentioned, the persistance of Umaro-Naru seems to indicate that the reset wasn't a complete one. Also, glancing through the site that Zwzn showed, it mentioned other changes from the original timeline as well--such as all the Scouts being present at the start of eighth grade, as opposed to filtering in as they did the first time 'round.
So yeah, whatever happened, it seems it wasn't a complete restart--one way or another, some ammount of changes made during the "lost" period were carried through.
At the moment, it's looking (to me) from the chronology listed like the wish essentially transposed people back through time, keeping the basic setup of the time she made the wish, but projecting that back to the start and rearanging memories to fit, erasing all memory of the Dark Kingdom. That's... annoying for my fic, but not as insurmountable as a complete reset would have been. Basically, I'll have to contrive a way for others who aren't scouts (the NWC, in this case) to come to remember details from the period independently. But if the reset isn't complete, I think I can finagle it reasonably.
In any case, thanks much for pointing all that info out to me!

Pluto in S admits to being there to create Crystal Tokyo as the inners saw it in R. It is not really a strech in my oppinion that she reset time, and caused the things that where not the same. It seems well with in anime may Pluto's power.
She can travel through time.
She has poorly defind telepathic powers. We don't know her limits, but there are hints she can do more then what is shown on screen.
She seems to know when and where to be.
Heck Crystal Tokyo may have created all the big bads in the series. Usagi was going insane after R, and Chibi-Usa seems willing to do anything to be born

Posted: **Sat Dec 30, 2006 2:01 am**

Zwzn wrote:Heck Crystal Tokyo may have created all the big bads in the series. Usagi was going insane after R, and Chibi-Usa seems willing to do anything to be born

Uh, which show were you watching? And from Chibi-Usa's perspective, she doesn't need to do anything at all to be born. Why? Because she's already born. Everything necessary to lead up to her birth has already happened.
In any case, canonically speaking, the actual source of the big bads in the series was the entity called Chaos.

Posted: **Sat Dec 30, 2006 3:48 am**

DO note that Chibi was also erased (temporarily) in the first arc of Stars -- so it's not all set in stone.
-Joshua

Posted: **Sat Dec 30, 2006 4:29 am**

TerraEpon wrote:DO note that Chibi was also erased (temporarily) in the first arc of Stars -- so it's not all set in stone.
-Joshua

I would argue that this is more due to the fact that the Chaos-possessed Galaxia, who set the events of the first arc of Stars in motion, is an entity imminently capable of creating paradox.

Posted: **Sat Dec 30, 2006 9:12 pm**

Zwzn wrote:Heck Crystal Tokyo may have created all the big bads in the series. Usagi was going insane after R, and Chibi-Usa seems willing to do anything to be born

P.H. Wise wrote:Uh, which show were you watching? And from Chibi-Usa's perspective, she doesn't need to do anything at all to be born. Why? Because she's already born. Everything necessary to lead up to her birth has already happened.

SuperS anime she makes it clear she will do what ever it takes to be born. Crystal Tokyo sends Chibi-Usa and Pluto back in time to ensure Crystal Tokyo. Crystal Tokyo. The royals of Crystal Tokyo are doing what ever it takes to ensure Crystal Tokyo. Chibi-Usa as seen is not a sure thing.

P.H. Wise wrote:In any case, canonically speaking, the actual source of the big bads in the series was the entity called Chaos.

Where did Chaos come from in the anime and manga? Crystal Tokyo sends agents into the past to ensure Crystal Tokyo, and seem to have no problem using mind control to further their goals. Is it that much a strech to think they would make a monster if it was needed to make Crystal Tokyo?

Posted: **Sat Dec 30, 2006 9:43 pm**

Zwzn wrote: Is it that much a strech to think they would make a monster if it was needed to make Crystal Tokyo?

Yes. Yes it is. I know everyone loves to do 'evil Crystal Tokyo' stories, but that's really pushing it.

Posted: **Sun Dec 31, 2006 3:30 am**

Zwzn wrote: Is it that much a strech to think they would make a monster if it was needed to make Crystal Tokyo?

P.H. Wise wrote:Yes. Yes it is. I know everyone loves to do 'evil Crystal Tokyo' stories, but that's really pushing it.

The Dark Moon(Dimond) Refered to Neo Queen Serenity as the goddess of the people of Crystal Tokyo. The way and what he said made me believe that the people of CT worship her.
Pluto says the city is DIVINE in S. This would imply to me that NQS and NKE are believed to have divine wisdom if not be gods.
Usagi was losing her sanity after R.
Usagi has a huge ego. Falling into that same trap of believing she was perfect after all the time Pluto must have set up things so she would win would be easy for someone as dumb as her.
Usagi nor Tuxy would need be told. The outers do stuff all the time that they know Usagi would not aprove of. The hole reason the outers support Usagi after the grail was summoned is CT.
Usagi would rather die and let the big bad of the year ate everyone's souls then be without Chibi-Usa.

Posted: **Sun Dec 31, 2006 4:19 am**

Zwzn wrote:Usagi was losing her sanity after R.
Usagi has a huge ego. Falling into that same trap of believing she was perfect after all the time Pluto must have set up things so she would win would be easy for someone as dumb as her.
Usagi nor Tuxy would need be told. The outers do stuff all the time that they know Usagi would not aprove of. The hole reason the outers support Usagi after the grail was summoned is CT.
Usagi would rather die and let the big bad of the year ate everyone's souls then be without Chibi-Usa.

Fanon != canon, my friend.
Unless you can cite specific examples of Usagi's huge ego, Usagi going insane, the Outers talking about their evil plans for the creation of Crystal Tokyo, etc, etc, there is little else that can be said here.
As far as Usagi letting the big bad 'eat everyone's souls,' I can only surmise that we didn't actually watch the same anime. Unless the the dub vastly different from the subtitled version? I've got every episode of Sailor Moon subtitled. I suppose that *could* account for the vast differences between us, but I doubt it.
When it comes down to it, Usagi is very nearly unfailingly good. She repeatedly throughout the series, she rejects the very notion of using evil means to achieve a good end. One of the big sources of conflict in Sailor Moon S is that the Outer Senshi are willing to sacrifice innocent people in order to save the world, and Usagi and the other Inner Senshi are not. In Sailor Stars, the very same thing occurs: Usagi *doesn't* compromise her morals, and that's why she succeeds where the Outer Senshi fail.
Sorry to get this subject so off topic, but I have a very hard time even seeing where you are coming from here.

Pluto says the city is DIVINE in S. This would imply to me that NQS and NKE are believed to have divine wisdom if not be gods.

This might very well be the source of the problem. The whole thing does have a touch of the divine about it, doesn't it? If you view that as being arrogance and pride, an impudent mortal pretending to be something that is beyond her rightful place, it casts things in a very different light than if you posit that Neo Queen Serenity might actually *be* a goddess.

Temple of Ranma's Sailor Senshi Seifuku

Question about the completeness of the post-Beryl reset

Question about the completeness of the post-Beryl reset

Re: Question about the completeness of the post-Beryl reset