Usotsuki Lily

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Re: Usotsuki Lily

Postby Lioconvoy » Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:38 pm

I can see An goinging for a girl like Ranma, and Ten after Ranma's male form, but En.... En truly hates men, while Hinata sometimes dresses as a guy she's always a girl. Ranma on the otherhand is sometimes a man, and he just wouldn't accept that part of Ranma.
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Re: Usotsuki Lily

Postby talonhunter » Tue Jun 21, 2011 6:47 am

Thats true, but remember, En finds it hard to resist Hinata's face as was demonstrated when En first meets Taiyou. En sees something he wants in her, even when she is dressed as a boy, just like Hinata's sees something more to En when he is dressed as a girl, even though she seemed to be superficial about it in the beginning.
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Re: Usotsuki Lily

Postby Lioconvoy » Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:20 pm

Yes but in the of Hinata and her bother, En had been going out with Hinata a while before meeting Taiyou. He saw a lot of Hinata in Taiyou.

With Ranma, however. In his female for he's not likely to go out with a guy, and in male form there's no way he'd be interested in a crossdresser. Since En doesn't hide his gender you won't have the Tsubasa incident repeat itself.
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Re: Usotsuki Lily

Postby talonhunter » Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:43 pm

True enough. I started to read Strawberry Kiss and 1/2 Prince while searching the site. Both look entertaining so far..;)
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Re: Usotsuki Lily

Postby Crescent Pulsar R » Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:47 am

Lioconvoy wrote:I can see An goinging for a girl like Ranma, and Ten after Ranma's male form, but En.... En truly hates men, while Hinata sometimes dresses as a guy she's always a girl. Ranma on the otherhand is sometimes a man, and he just wouldn't accept that part of Ranma.

Lioconvoy wrote:Yes but in the of Hinata and her bother, En had been going out with Hinata a while before meeting Taiyou. He saw a lot of Hinata in Taiyou.

With Ranma, however. In his female for he's not likely to go out with a guy, and in male form there's no way he'd be interested in a crossdresser. Since En doesn't hide his gender you won't have the Tsubasa incident repeat itself.

There are two things that you're overlooking. One is the fact that En had trouble not being attracted with Hinata's brother even after he found out that he wasn't Hinata, but her brother. Basically: despite being a guy, even though he's always a guy, it did go through the "I hate men" defense. The other would be a matter of circumstance. The formula for relationships is hardly ever simple in fiction (especially in comedy); just look at Hinata's and En's relationship. Heck, look at Ranma's without even considering anyone beyond Akane. For instance, he may confess his feelings to Ranma while crossdressed instead, since Ranma and Hinata are different people. There's also how broad Ranma's behavior can be, whether a girl or not, and En will have a lot of strange or quirky things to like about Ranma when they come up while he's a girl. (Just think back on the subject of leg hair, and how En even found imperfections in that regard to be attractive. So long as it's a girl's body hardly anything isn't sacred; he probably likes girls so much (like most of his family) that he finds excuses to call something about them cute. Well, Ranma's got cute in spades, both in appearance and in how he acts differently from most girls.)

And how Ranma would respond would also be a case of what the circumstances are like. Unlike the other people interested in him, En actually knows how to say nice things at the right times, and that's part of the reason why Hinata sticks with him despite him being a crossdresser. The other is whether Ranma would even be aware of who En is when they first meet. Just because he's open about his crossdressing doesn't mean that Ranma knows him; even Hinata wasn't able to remember who he was even though he gave his full name and what class he was in when he confessed to her.

There are a bunch of other ways for these two to work out; it's all in the setup. Maybe Ranma agrees to be En's girlfriend because it's a part of another silly scheme he's trying to accomplish, and the act progressively becomes real over time. Maybe Ranma's starved for real affection and he's willing to take whatever he can get, the consequences be damned. Maybe he's really been interested in guys all along but doesn't show it, since the only girl he shows any attraction for he often comments on how unlike a girl she is. ("What," you say? Sure. He could have kept it secret because of social stigma. And the guys who have shown interest in him have all been unattractive in some form or another. Usually because they're weirdos.)

Well, Ranma isn't the point. I'm pretty sure that I've given enough reason for En to find Ranma attractive enough to confess to. What happens after that is of no real consequence, though it'd make a sucky story should it end when he is turned down by Ranma.
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Re: Usotsuki Lily

Postby Lioconvoy » Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:49 pm

There are two things that you're overlooking. One is the fact that En had trouble not being attracted with Hinata's brother even after he found out that he wasn't Hinata, but her brother. Basically: despite being a guy, even though he's always a guy, it did go through the "I hate men" defense. The other would be a matter of circumstance. The formula for relationships is hardly ever simple in fiction (especially in comedy); just look at Hinata's and En's relationship. Heck, look at Ranma's without even considering anyone beyond Akane. For instance, he may confess his feelings to Ranma while crossdressed instead, since Ranma and Hinata are different people. There's also how broad Ranma's behavior can be, whether a girl or not, and En will have a lot of strange or quirky things to like about Ranma when they come up while he's a girl. (Just think back on the subject of leg hair, and how En even found imperfections in that regard to be attractive. So long as it's a girl's body hardly anything isn't sacred; he probably likes girls so much (like most of his family) that he finds excuses to call something about them cute. Well, Ranma's got cute in spades, both in appearance and in how he acts differently from most girls.)


Er, did you ignore what I said? The reason he was atracted to Taiyou was because Taiyou reminded him of Hinata. A lot of the things he had come to like in Hinata were also in Taiyou. If he hadn't been dating Hinata he wouldn't have fallen for Taiyou, if Taiyou wasn't her brother he wouldn't have even gone on the date. The condition would have to be fairly exact for En to give Ranma a chance.
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Re: Usotsuki Lily

Postby Crescent Pulsar R » Fri Jun 24, 2011 2:48 pm

I didn't ignore what you said. It says nothing against En being attracted to Ranma; in fact, quite the opposite. I pointed out that En, even when he knows it's a guy and not Hinata, still found it hard to handle him in his usual "I hate men" way. If his hatred of men can be put off by similar looks and behavior, then Ranma is Hinata and Taiyou in one body. Heck, when Ranma's a man it wouldn't be any different from when Hinata crossdresses. I can see En dealing with it like he did Hinata's crossdressing (which he also found cute in its own way) because he knows that Hinata makes sacrifices to be with him when she'd rather he not crossdress. Lord knows how often she tells him to dress as a guy, so he knows it.

It would still depend on how Ranma reacts to the confession, but in every other regard En has no real reason to pass Ranma up because he's a guy, if he were to be attracted to Ranma's girl form. In fact, they have something in common to build on, between En's crossdressing and Ranma's curse.
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Re: Usotsuki Lily

Postby Lioconvoy » Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:51 pm

...En would still have to meet and get to know Ranma's female form first before he could accept her male form. You brought up schemes before, Ranma's never had that long term of a sceme and En would likely be hurt being used. Also if it's for a scheme is Ranma likey to act like himself, normally he doesn't, it's not the same as Taiyou and Hinata having simular personalitys.
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Re: Usotsuki Lily

Postby Crescent Pulsar R » Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:52 pm

There wouldn't be any real get-to-knowing to do. Even with Hinata En had only been watching her before he confessed, so he'd have to accept that Ranma's a guy before any kind of confession, thus any real get-to-knowing. And even before En confessed, we're shown what he thinks about girls with imperfections ("bad and unpleasant parts"), and Ranma being a guy could be seen that way. And if that's seen as the worst kind of imperfection, a girl actually becoming a guy, he'd probably find the idea even more attractive.

As for schemes, they never lasted long because Ranma 1/2 has little continuity and is mostly made up of unconnected one-shots and short stories. With the notable exception of "Ranko," of course. Either way, there's nothing to say that Ranma isn't capable of committing to a scheme of any length; it'd obviously depend on what kind of scheme it is, and why he'd want to do it. Whether that might end up hurting En is irrelevant since the question is whether it's possible to pair En up with Ranma to begin with. I've come to the conclusion that it's possible, and it seems that you disagree. (I should probably write a story about it, then. It'll have to wait on the To Love-Ru crossover I'm working on to prove how something else can be done.)
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Re: Usotsuki Lily

Postby Lioconvoy » Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:08 pm

Very simple reason to dissagreee, despite his unique taste, En chose someone normal. Hinata only started becoming weird as a result of En's weirdness. And again with Taiyou he was just a replacement for Hinata. Which he ends up being a lot. I don't think things would work out the same for Ranma.
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Re: Usotsuki Lily

Postby Crescent Pulsar R » Sat Jun 25, 2011 4:17 am

I still haven't read more than two volumes, but from what I read so far there is nothing that says En's interested in Hinata because she's normal. A few characters say that she's normal, or something to the effect that she's not all that appealing, but En (if he hears it) has never agreed with them in either case. In fact, when Naota tells En that Hinata looks absurdly normal, and gives off an average feeling, he's called both an idiot and a bastard. And what En then envisions what he considers to be average, since he's already very attracted to Hinata, it's something that sounds extraordinary, not normal. Another time when Naota calls her normal, En says: "no matter what anyone says, to me, Hinata is the cutest girl in the world." Which is both disagreeing with her being normal and giving an idea of his tastes (which have to be beyond normal and average since he holds girls in such high regard as a principle).

I just finished re-reading the two volumes I've read so far, and all I saw was "cute" this and "cute" that. And when Hinata pulled that silly stunt with Gotou (something Ranma would be silly enough to do), to get her uninterested in En, he not only found it really cute but thought it was a part of her that he really liked (and crossdressing to deter a rival love interest of the same sex, by trying to get them interested in yourself, is far from normal).

That said, there's also the part where he tries to look like his ideal girl, but no matter how cute he made himself look he couldn't quite make himself look exactly like the kind of girl he would be interested in. Said ideal girl would at least have to be more stylish, but that style didn't suit him, and thus he couldn't find his ideal girl in a mirror.

So I still say that both Ranma's appearance and behavior would be cute enough to get En's attention. (Though I think his high opinion of girls, to the point that they only need to exist to gain said opinion, would be enough to overcome the fact that Ranma's really a guy.) Also, En once said: "a girl with a trait no other girl has is so rare! And really romantic!" What about a girl that becomes a guy with hot water? Sure, they're really a guy, but the interest is focused on the girl side of the equation. Then that was followed up by: "because the one who can say 'I don't look feminine' is a girl!" Sounds very much like Ranma saying "I'm a guy" when he's a girl, to me. They'd make a good match. :P
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Re: Usotsuki Lily

Postby talonhunter » Sat Jun 25, 2011 12:24 pm

what's funny is En's brother Ten would probably be the the linchpin to the whole situation and that might get a little Physicotic, with Ten chasing Ranma's male side, and forcing him to be Ranko, thus endearing hir to En even more...;)
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Re: Usotsuki Lily

Postby Lioconvoy » Thu Jun 30, 2011 12:56 am

Crescent Pulsar R wrote:I still haven't read more than two volumes, but from what I read so far there is nothing that says En's interested in Hinata because she's normal. A few characters say that she's normal, or something to the effect that she's not all that appealing, but En (if he hears it) has never agreed with them in either case. In fact, when Naota tells En that Hinata looks absurdly normal, and gives off an average feeling, he's called both an idiot and a bastard. And what En then envisions what he considers to be average, since he's already very attracted to Hinata, it's something that sounds extraordinary, not normal. Another time when Naota calls her normal, En says: "no matter what anyone says, to me, Hinata is the cutest girl in the world." Which is both disagreeing with her being normal and giving an idea of his tastes (which have to be beyond normal and average since he holds girls in such high regard as a principle).

While his deffinition of normal is contradictory(sp) of everyone else, his definition of cute is as well. Given all the things he said to the girls who aproached him, it kind of make it out to be that he's more interested in the girls no one else is. The whole situation with Gotou only goes to further prove that fact, which is why Gotou wanted him as her boyfriend.

Crescent Pulsar R wrote:So I still say that both Ranma's appearance and behavior would be cute enough to get En's attention. (Though I think his high opinion of girls, to the point that they only need to exist to gain said opinion, would be enough to overcome the fact that Ranma's really a guy.) Also, En once said: "a girl with a trait no other girl has is so rare! And really romantic!" What about a girl that becomes a guy with hot water? Sure, they're really a guy, but the interest is focused on the girl side of the equation. Then that was followed up by: "because the one who can say 'I don't look feminine' is a girl!" Sounds very much like Ranma saying "I'm a guy" when he's a girl, to me. They'd make a good match. :P

Given his reaction to his own reflection I do not see him accepting Ranma's male side. Your quote is about girls, but he's contantly said the world doesn't need guys; so long as Ranma's part guy En would not be interested in him.

I'm on to volume four now, have you read the Zero Volume? While the oneshot isn't continuity the other stories in it are.
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Re: Usotsuki Lily

Postby Crescent Pulsar R » Thu Jun 30, 2011 1:18 am

Lioconvoy wrote:While his deffinition of normal is contradictory(sp) of everyone else, his definition of cute is as well. Given all the things he said to the girls who aproached him, it kind of make it out to be that he's more interested in the girls no one else is. The whole situation with Gotou only goes to further prove that fact, which is why Gotou wanted him as her boyfriend.

So you're proving my point, then? If he's interested in girls no one else is, how does that make them normal? ;p

Plus, while his idea of what "cute" is can be attributed to a great number of things, we have no idea what he considers to be normal. Certainly not Hinata; he's far too infatuated with her to ever consider her to be anything remotely close to normal. One could even say that, to him, it might be impossible for any girl to be normal, seeing as the worst would still be better than the best man.

Given his reaction to his own reflection I do not see him accepting Ranma's male side. Your quote is about girls, but he's contantly said the world doesn't need guys; so long as Ranma's part guy En would not be interested in him.

And yet En's a guy himself, but doesn't commit suicide to do the world a favor.

I mean, seriously. Despite his hatred of men he doesn't punch or treat all of them ill indiscriminately. There's Naota, his brothers and father, Taiyou, the guy he works for at the cafe, the twins... Heck, if I remember correctly, he only had nice things to say about that samurai otaku. And if his reason for not being bothered by Naota (because he doesn't treat En like the other guys do) is true (and there's no reason to think it isn't), then he'd have no real problem with Ranma even if he didn't turn into a girl. Turning into an attractive girl can only improve upon that.

I'm on to volume four now, have you read the Zero Volume? While the oneshot isn't continuity the other stories in it are.

I started with volume zero, actually. I technically read three volumes when I said two, but by now I've read everything that's been scanlated. Good stuff. For me, it's up there with Hayate no Gotoku and Hayate X Blade. Oh-ho!
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Re: Usotsuki Lily

Postby Lioconvoy » Thu Jun 30, 2011 1:32 am

Crescent Pulsar R wrote:So you're proving my point, then? If he's interested in girls no one else is, how does that make them normal? ;p


Normal may not be the right word here how about unatractive by the comman man's standard. Those are the kind of girls he's shown the most interest in. Ranma doesn't fit that, like En cross-dressed guys go gaga over the female Ranma.

Crescent Pulsar R wrote:And yet En's a guy himself, but doesn't commit suicide to do the world a favor.

I mean, seriously. Despite his hatred of men he doesn't punch or treat all of them ill indiscriminately. There's Naota, his brothers and father, Taiyou, the guy he works for at the cafe, the twins... Heck, if I remember correctly, he only had nice things to say about that samurai otaku. And if his reason for not being bothered by Naota (because he doesn't treat En like the other guys do) is true (and there's no reason to think it isn't), then he'd have no real problem with Ranma even if he didn't turn into a girl. Turning into an attractive girl can only improve upon that.


There is a difference between him being friends with other males, and having a relationship with one. While I can see him being friends with Ranma, I can't see him going farther.
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