sasuke genius or lucky

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sasuke genius or lucky

Postby toushin » Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:58 am

This has been on my mind a very long time is it me or is Sasuke Uchiha the worst character ever created. He is played off as this fighting genius but the only people he has beaten up were either second strings, he got lucky or they let him win. Let’s break down his major victories. He defeated a sick and nearly dead Orochimaru, which turned out to be Orochimarus plan. He let him win so that he could take his body later on, and he would have succeeded to if it wasn't for Itachi, who also let Sasuke beat him.

The other people that he beat Saizo, and he wouldn't have if Saizo wasn't such a sadist and had just killed him in the beginning. The Raikage’s brother basically played him for a fool. Even now when he has the power to beat the strong opponents, it means nothing because all of that power was given to him. He would have never been able to accomplish those feats by himself.

Add to that for most of the battle’s he’s had recently he’s used his team-mates as either distractions or strategist, but when he no longer needs them he just throws them away. Given all I’ve seen I truly believe he screwed himself when he killed Kiren.

On top of that I come to find out I come to find out he’s nothing more then a spoiled brat. The fact that he witnessed his brother betray his village, slaughter all of his family, and being able to do nothing to stop it was a big excuse for the way he acted. However, when he found out that his family was planning to kill hundreds of people simply because they didn’t acknowledge them as their better, and Itachi stopped them. He showed no remorse for what he did, but was instead angered that the Konohagakure had the audacity to stop them.
Last edited by toushin on Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: sasuke genius or lucky

Postby Konsaki » Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:04 am

Whoa... punctuation and paragraphs are your friend, man. Plus I didnt even know which Sauske (Uchiha aparently) you were talking about until you got to the snake bastard...
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Re: sasuke genius or lucky

Postby toushin » Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:44 pm

sorry about that but i was in a hurry and wanted to finish
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Re: sasuke genius or lucky

Postby Pale Wolf » Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:56 am

Well... yeah, you need to work on the presentation.

But, as far as the actual topic... yup. Sasuke's... not a genius, in any respect. He's got eye hax and a knack for repeating the exact same move better people than him have used, but no creativity, no tactical sense, minimal book learning... what exactly is there left for him to be a genius of? He just has superpowers.

That said, I haven't been keeping up with the newest stuff. I bowed out from Naruto a long time ago, and right now I just glance at summaries to snicker at how bad it's got.
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Re: sasuke genius or lucky

Postby Zwzn » Sun Feb 07, 2010 2:47 am

toushin wrote:This has been on my mind a very long time is it me or is Sasuke Uchiha the worst character ever created. He is played off as this fighting genius but the only people he has beaten up were either second strings, he got lucky or they let him win. Let’s break down his major victories. He defeated a sick and nearly dead Orochimaru, which turned out to be Orochimarus plan. He let him win so that he could take his body later on, and he would have succeeded to if it wasn't for Itachi, who also let Sasuke beat him.

The other people that he beat Saizo, and he wouldn't have if Saizo wasn't such a sadist and had just killed him in the beginning. The Raikage’s brother basically played him for a fool. Even now when he has the power to beat the strong opponents, it means nothing because all of that power was given to him. He would have never been able to accomplish those feats by himself.

Add to that for most of the battle’s he’s had recently he’s used his team-mates as either distractions or strategist, but when he no longer needs them he just throws them away. Given all I’ve seen I truly believe he screwed himself when he killed Kiren.

On top of that I come to find out I come to find out he’s nothing more then a spoiled brat. The fact that he witnessed his brother betray his village, slaughter all of his family, and being able to do nothing to stop it was a big excuse for the way he acted. However, when he found out that his family was planning to kill hundreds of people simply because they didn’t acknowledge them as their better, and Itachi stopped them. He showed no remorse for what he did, but was instead angered that the Konohagakure had the audacity to stop them.


I agree whole heartedly. I've always felt Naruto is everything Sasuke is said to be myself.

Who is Kiren? I tried looking on the Narutopedia, but it didn't have an article for the character. Do you mean Karin? http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Karin
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Re: sasuke genius or lucky

Postby toushin » Sun Feb 07, 2010 12:25 pm

ya
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Re: sasuke genius or lucky

Postby toushin » Thu Sep 15, 2011 6:44 pm

Masashi Kishimoto though a great author and artist the one thing he can’t seem to do is come up with believable main characters. It just defeats the purpose if the character your manga focuses on drives away your fans.

sasuke
First off he tries to play sasuke off as this bad ass but let’s face it he’s nothing more then a pawn. We’ve already been through sasuke’s inadequacies as a fighter so I won’t go into that. His whole life he has never made a decision on his own someone has always been grooming him for their own plan. What makes it worse is that half the time that person just lets him do what he want just so he can stay out of their hair until they need him. Everything he has done with either orochimaru or manga has basically been for their gain not his. What makes it worse it that it’s obvious but he’s too stupid to put two and two together. How are you going to avenge your brother if orochimaru consumes you? Throughout the series sasuke has progressively gotten worse especially after he found out why his family was really killed. Revenge motivates everything he does even now when he has nothing to get revenge for it still motivates him. Heck even the guy who was responsible for the massacre fully explained it to him and he still didn’t get it. I just see him as a spoiled brat and revenge is just an excuse to get attention. This is they only way to explain why he constantly betrays people. He puts only his own objectives first and foremost. He was only loyal to the leaf because that was currently the only way he knew to get stronger. Then orochimaru. When he thought he became stronger then orochimaru he decides to kill him. We all know how that turned out. Finally when finds out what actually happened he loses all sense of reason. The only people who knew what really happened to the uchiha were Danzo and the Konoha Council yet since the Uchiha rebellion would have meant civil war all the people who are alive now because of what happen are responsible. This also includes the other villages that eventually would have attacked the weakened leaf. He’s currently added his brother Itachi to the list of people he's getting revenge for. My stance is that you can't claim you’re avenging someone when you spit on everything they've done even to the point of desecrating their corpse. Masashi Kishimoto himself must realize that sasuke is not someone who could survive long with the choices he's made which is why he keeps getting these ridicules upgrades whenever someone stronger comes along.

naruto
Actually naruto seems like your typical shonen protagonist TV trope called it an Idiot Hero. The problem is that Masashi Kishimoto has given naruto a totally unrealistic goal. Naruto will never be hokage because the position is just too political for someone like naruto to handle. The anime depicts him in a mach harsher light, especially the filler arcs in part one. Nearly all of them have an instance where naruto would have destroyed the village if he didn't have his teammates with him. He was even told once that his actions could ruin the village’s credibility. The manga mainly shows this through his interactions with sasuke. No matter what sasuke does he believes if he just get's sasuke back from whoever he is currently following that everything would go back to normal. The fact that sasuke has tried to kill him twice doesn't even seem to register with him. Even when he found out that sasuke attacked another village and joined the group that nearly destroyed his he took it upon himself to take the blame. He seems to becoming to turns that it's too late to save him but instead of actually trying to stop him he decides to die with him. if even by some ridicules miracle sasuke does decide to stop his idiocy and go back to the leaf (which he better not) the four other villages would have no other choice but the declare war on the leaf for accepting him back. the fact that naruto is willing to sacrifice so much for someone who just what’s to destroy it in the first place shows that he could never be a leader. He’s inspiring he's talented but he's no leader. Another thing I find peculiar is that naruto is still a genin. That is another thing that would hold him back.

sakura
My problem with sakura is that she lives in her own little fantasy world. The only reason she likes sasuke is because of his looks and his skill. She has convinced herself that her crush is actually an expression of love going so far to ostracize herself from her best friend because she liked the popular guy to. The fact that most of the girls her age liked sasuke shows that she most likely didn't have a lot of friend’s growing up. Then when she actually met him and he treated her with a combination of contempt and total indifference she still followed him around like a puppy. Though on the bright side that was how she became a genin because she would have never given naruto her food by herself. Sasuke like naruto just seems to ignore everything sasuke has done so she can hold on to her fantasy effectively letting him get a way with murder. Telling about his curse seal when it happened probably would have solved a lot of problems. It seems the worse he gets the more she ignores where if she actually cared about him she would of done all she could to help him. Later in part two when she what he was to her she just broke out into tears because she couldn't answer. After sasuke tried to kill her I thought she had finally grown up and learned her lesson but it turned out that I was wrong. This shows that sakura can't be trusted. Not that she will betray the village but that when it comes to sasuke she will end up hesitating at a critical time and that will end up putting who ever she's with in danger. I find it funny that she's willing to be sasuke's doormat but those who are actually attracted to her she treats like crap but at the same time she has no problem taking advantage of that attraction. Though when you like in a world that repeatedly sacrifice children as either weapons or just to save themselves them yet treat those self same children as if they were monsters then act surprised when they develop personality problems that's not surprising.

The main problem in naruto is that no one is willing to be the bad guy, not the villain but the bad guy. All of the adults are either in nostalgia about how similar the main characters are to them or just inspired by their drive that they can't tell them that their going down the wrong path. even when they do buckle down and act like adults they still eventually give in. as I said naruto is a typical shonen hero and your typical shonen hero needs someone to someone who won't hesitate to educate them. A great example is from one piece, when their ship the going merry was damaged beyond repair and the straw hat's were forced to abandon it Usopp first challenged Luffy his captain over this decision and then left the crew. When Usopp tried to return to the ship Zoro took Luffy aside and told him that he is the captain and if he lets Usopp back without an apology then he no longer deserves that title and zoro would leave if he does. Be it their teachers allies or even their friends need to tell naruto and sakura that it's time to grow up. That sakura needs to take her head out of the clouds and focus on reality or she will never be anything more then a liability. And that naruto needs to figure out what is important the thousands of people fighting for their lives or the person trying to kill them. He may be willing to sacrifice himself for a lost cost but he will not sacrifice everyone else.
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Re: sasuke genius or lucky

Postby KonokoHasano » Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:02 pm

... you need to learn to separate into paragraphs and not place each part as huge wall of texts.

Sasuke, for the most part, has some skill as far as most things are concerned. However, in the long run, most of his powers and skills have been obtained through luck. He's worked himself to get stronger in the beginning, yes, but most of the things are mainly handed to him on a silver platter. Be it his heritage and bloodline, Orochimaru, Madara, the Cursed Seal, recently obtaining Itachi's eyes... all of it has come from gifts for the most part.

What does he really have to show for it, though? Sasuke has never really won any important battles at all. Usually when he does fight against something important, he doesn't win on his own merits or skills, but as certain flukes. He didn't win against Haku, the Gaara fight never really worked out, there was his win against Naruto in the Valley of the End, but that was because Naruto faltered. Diedara blew himself up, Sasuke got his ass handed to him when fighting Killer Bee, and was taken for a fool when he thought he completed his objective, Itachi died of exhaustion and not at Sasuke's hands, and Danzo -- though through effort on Sasuke's part -- pretty much killed himself.

Sasuke isn't a genius; he's just lucky.


I don't agree on the assessment of Naruto unable to handle being a Kage. Sure, at the beginning of the series he was incredibly immature and brash, along with unable to really be much of a 'leader' of many. However, the series has progressed, and so has Naruto's personality and character. Is he still brash and quick to act? Yes. However, he -- and always has, mind you -- inspired others to change their ways and respect him. An example of this being Gaara and Tsunade.

Past Naruto really couldn't be considered leader quality. Current Naruto, however, does have what it takes. He has slowly opened the eyes of many of those around him and has gained the respect of many, especially in regards to Leaf Village. His abilities and skills have advanced to where he is a formidable opponent, and if anything, he could be considered to be the genius through his hard work and perseverance.

As for him chasing after Sasuke... so what? I don't see why him wishing to save someone that he considered a friend and close enough to be family is such a terrible thing and ruins his chances of being a leader. He believes that he can change Sasuke, and refuses to give up in that regard. Sure, it may seem silly or stupid to most people that he would go to so much trouble to help someone who is rather batshit insane and wishing to destroy Konoha, but guess what? He's done it numerous times before. Examples being Gaara and Pein/Nagato, in which he managed to inspire them.


As for Sakura... well... she's also gone through character development. In the beginning of the series, all she cared about was Sasuke this, Sasuke that. She didn't care about being an actual ninja herself, and she had no respect at all for Naruto. Throughout the series, though, this changes, and she gradually grows to be more responsible for what she does. She wanted to get stronger in order to not continue being the third wheel of the group, hence why she became Tsunade's apprentice and such.

She even had more development in Part II. Initially she is more interested in Sasuke, but as time goes by, it's shown that she gains more and more respect for Naruto, even worrying about him and wishing she could help protect him. An example of this being where she tries to convince Naruto to give up on Sasuke and forget the promise he made to her long ago.

Is Sakura still in love with Sasuke? Yes she is, but it's not the 'fan-girly fantasy' kind of love that she initially had at the start of the series. She honestly has feelings for Sasuke and is hurt when she finds out just how twisted he has become, wanting to kill him so that he doesn't sink any lower. Though she couldn't bring herself to do it when it mattered, due to remembering all that she, Sasuke, and Naruto went through as Team 7.

Why is that so wrong, though? After all, all three of them pretty much were friends and a family of sort when they were together. They shared many moments, they went through various troubles and hardships, and they got to know each other. Sasuke might not cherish those moments as of now, but Naruto and Sakura still do, and still view Sasuke as one of them, even though it may come to a moment where they would have to kill him.
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