how strong is batman

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how strong is batman

Postby toushin » Thu Oct 15, 2009 3:23 pm

i just finished the jla/avengers crossover and there was something in it that struck me. in the scene were captain america and batman were fighting batman admitted that he would lose, he said it wouldn't be an easy fight but he would lose. that got me thinking how good is batman really, is he the master we are lead to believe. for instance what if for instance geese howard decided to leave south town and set up in gotham could batman do a thing to stop him. what if he had to fight bison ar ranma could he hold his own or would he end up being embarassed.
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Re: how strong is batman

Postby KonokoHasano » Thu Oct 15, 2009 3:58 pm

Batman's strength is in the 'Peak Human' category on the DC strength scale.

Peak Human: able to lift double one's own body weight up to the 800 lb level

Note: The weight of 800 lbs is the greatest amount of weight a human can lift, within the DC Universe, without being considered superhuman.


This might shed some light from the DC Wiki.

* Peak Human Strength: He was seen to be breaking steel chains and cuffs [11], supporting 1010lbs ceiling [12], bending steel metal bars with his hands [13], even punched a SWAT officer through a brick wall [14]

* Peak Human Reflexes: Bruce's reflexes were honed to such a degree that he has caught one of Green Arrow's arrows in mid flight when he tried to shoot him.[citation needed]

* Peak Human Speed: He could run at speeds comparable to the finest competing athletes.

* Peak Human Endurance: His endurance was comparable to that of the finest Olympic Decathlon participant.[citation needed] His lung capacity was so great that he could hold his breath underwater for 5 mins.[citation needed]

* Peak Human Agility: His agility was greater than that of a Chinese acrobat and an Olympic gold medalist gymnast.[citation needed] His main phase of movement was Parkour which he learned in France and used that to scale the cities rooftops in an acrobatic manner.[citation needed]

* Peak Human Durability: He has been shot numerous times but wears kevlar lined body armor.


As such, when you think about how he would do against other characters from other series, you need to take into consideration just what those other characters can do with their own power.
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Re: how strong is batman

Postby Ran » Sun Oct 18, 2009 8:10 pm

So Bats is at the peak of human physical capability?

Isn't that the same as Captain America then? At least in the mainstream Marvelverse (616?) the formula was meant to bring him to peak human capacity in the Ultimate one it did actually make him super.
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Re: how strong is batman

Postby Zwzn » Mon Oct 19, 2009 2:01 am

Ran wrote:So Bats is at the peak of human physical capability?

Isn't that the same as Captain America then? At least in the mainstream Marvelverse (616?) the formula was meant to bring him to peak human capacity in the Ultimate one it did actually make him super.

616 Captain America is actually super human in at least the fact his body either produces less fatigue poisons in his muscles, or just deals with them better then a non-superhuman can hope to.

This is what you are looking for I think.
Home » Comic Book Forums » Comic Book 'Respect' Forum » RESPECT Captain America

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=390466&pagenumber=1
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Re: how strong is batman

Postby toushin » Mon Oct 19, 2009 9:43 am

ranma

Fighting Style: Trained from the time he was very young by his father in the ways of the Saotome family's style of "Anything Goes Martial Arts" Ranma is a master of several styles of martial arts, utilizing a blend of Chinese and Japanese techniques. The other branch of Anything Goes, the Tendo School, is practiced by Sōun and Akane. Ranma is seen as the school's primary heir.

A practitioner of the Anything Goes Martial Arts is expected to be prepared to do almost anything to triumph, regardless of the challenges, humiliations, or cheating involved. This versatile combat style can produce a warrior who is strong in virtually every aspect of battle, both mentally and physically, with limited weaknesses. In most fights, neither form has a discernible advantage, as they both perform equally well. Ranma is, however, stronger with a longer reach in his male form, and faster and more agile as a female. His training has made him a very balanced fighter, though he can still be surprised by opponents whom he has never fought before. His impressive physical abilities include incredible strength, and outstanding speed. He also has superhuman endurance, enabling him to continue fighting even after he has taken many powerful blows or fallen from a great height.

Swiftness: As a gauge of the extent of Ranma's speed, he has been able to land 518 blows during a very brief ice-skating skirmish with Mikado Sanzenin, even before undergoing Cologne's speed training. Afterwards, he was referred as able to land "a few hundred punches" on Ryoga so swiftly that it looked like a single strike, or shown to catch over a hundred pebbles from the latter's Bakusai Tenketsu rock explosion within at most a few seconds. If the above gauges are accurate this would make him able to move at supersonic speeds, but apparently only uses it in combat situations, and was stated as greatly exerted from intensive prolonged usage.

Stamina: He's durable enough to withstand the full power of Ryu Kumon's, large, stone Buddha-statue splitting, "demon god assault bomb" vacuum blade-barrage, and immediately continue to fight afterwards, (which, at the very least, would qualify him as bulletproof), managed to withstand exposure to Rouge's and Saffron's firestorms, and has fallen hundreds of meters into solid stone with only minor bruising. Regarding his limits, when in a state of surprise, a single strike from Taro in his cursed form almost rendered female Ranma unconscious after crashing into a stone palisade. Although later, during their aerial battle against Rouge, he was only momentarily stunned. Ryoga's regular Shi-shi Hokodan (a technique used to clear out cave-ins, or to help blow tunnels through the earth) has knocked him out in one blow, or required a few to several shots, depending on the latter's focus. This version even managed to stun Ranma for a few seconds when Ryoga was turned into a small child. Even being partially hit by the outermost limit of the perfect version was enough to instantly knock him out, despite attempting to lessen the impact with his weakened Moko Takabisha. Although a later, attempt, during their fight, only stunned him for a minute at most (note: no change was noticeable in the size of the crater at this point), and he was able to handle them much better by distracting Ryoga into absorbing most of the impact. At the end of the fight he synchronized his movement with a falling, even more powerful, "ultimate" version, defeated Ryoga by merging the impact with a surprise blow to his head, and remained conscious long enough to declare victory.
Happosai's smaller Happo-daikarin are also shown as capable of downing him in one strike, which is understandable, given that they have proved able to repeatedly do the same to Taro's considerably more durable cursed 'monster' form, but he's withstood them on other occasions, so it apparently depends on the force his grandmaster puts into them.

Strength: Ranma's physical power seems to be portrayed somewhat inconsistently depending on story convenience. He broke his legs from the impact of a 50-100 metre fall while carrying four girls, but was likely still severely weakened from poison at the time, so his peak effort should be multiplied. Male Ranma proved unable to get out when stuck under an 90-100 tonne large iron bell, but wasn't significantly motivated and had no grip. Female Ranma almost effortlessly pushed a roughly 40-tonne boulder into the mouth of the Yamata-Orochi while swimming underwater, when supremely determined to save Akane from being eaten, and also managed to support the pressure Ryoga exerted on two enormous floating slabs of ice, one of which had an approximate weight of roughly 206 to 642 metric tons, when the latter was standing on her head Thus, he would presumably have succeeded with better leverage and motivation.
Given his ability to contend with Ryoga, who by all appearances could exert force equivalent to lifting at least several thousand tones under optimal circumstances, he must be at least a tenth as strong himself, and very likely considerably higher. Although comparatively weaker, Ranma seems to have superior conscious control of his abilities, and can more easily dial it back during basic social interactions, while Ryoga occasionally breaks anything he touches. That said, he has stated outright that he generally honors his opponents' pride by fighting full force, and refuses to give up both for himself and because he thinks a hollow victory would never be satisfying in a battle between honorable men. More notably in battles with Mousse and Gosunkugi, but he has also occasionally restrained himself, as in battles with Akane, Shampoo, or (initially) Ukyo and Konatsu.

Striking Force: As a gauge of female Ranma's hitting power, a few moments of focusing her energies proved sufficient to split a 3m-3.5m diameter boulder with a single strike, while male Ranma managed to immediately shatter a 2m-2.5m version.

Most of these are from the Ranma scanlation available online. Just a few of Ranma's feats throughout the series:

Ranma vs fire. Fire that was melting a mountain:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v229/ ... mafire.gif

Another temperature resistance feat for Ranma: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v229/ ... nmaice.gif - he froze his whole body in order to survive continued exposure to the fire.

Proof that he's not academically stupid either: http://ranmahentai.ranma.ws/RanmaManga/ ... 23-062.gif - If Ranma can relate it to fighting, any kind of knowledge is his bitch.

Little durability feat here: http://ranmahentai.ranma.ws/RanmaManga/ ... 23-180.gif

The Hiryu Korin Dan:

http://ranmahentai.ranma.ws/RanmaManga/ ... 25-022.gif
http://ranmahentai.ranma.ws/RanmaManga/ ... 25-023.gif
http://ranmahentai.ranma.ws/RanmaManga/ ... 25-024.gif
http://ranmahentai.ranma.ws/RanmaManga/ ... 25-025.gif

Ranma takes a hit from the combined ki of Shampoo, Ukyo, and Kodachi:
http://ranmahentai.ranma.ws/RanmaManga/ ... 25-124.gif
http://ranmahentai.ranma.ws/RanmaManga/ ... 25-125.gif - he's fine again within a couple of seconds.

Ranma takes a hit from his own ki:
http://ranmahentai.ranma.ws/RanmaManga/ ... 25-130.gif
http://ranmahentai.ranma.ws/RanmaManga/ ... 25-132.gif - a few seconds later, he doesn't even look injured. He takes a bigger one later, with similar results.

Ranma runs into the locker room, finds his clothes, changes, and runs back out before anyone can actually finish a complete sentence: http://ranmahentai.ranma.ws/RanmaManga/ ... 25-136.gif - very far from being even one of his moderate speed feats, but it once again shows his whole body operating a superspeed.

Other people were completely incapable of moving after Hinako drained them. Ranma gets a massive draining, and still manages to hit her pressure points:
http://ranmahentai.ranma.ws/RanmaManga/ ... 25-145.gif
http://ranmahentai.ranma.ws/RanmaManga/ ... 25-147.gif

Mastering the Umisenken: An example of Ranma's learning curve. Rather than show the whole thing, I'll just let Genma sum it up here:
http://ranmahentai.ranma.ws/RanmaManga/ ... 28-065.gif

Ranma takes hits from blades that easily carved through stone, metal, and earth:
http://ranmahentai.ranma.ws/RanmaManga/ ... 28-128.gif - at least one of those hit him dead on.

Nice strength feat:
http://ranmahentai.ranma.ws/RanmaManga/ ... 28-147.gif - There is, at the very least, a giant stone (possibly metal) Buddha's remains in there, plus a whole lot of the ground they were fighting on (enough to landscape the whole battlefield and create a new hill), plus everyone's clothes and a bunch of other random things.

And with that, my connection seems to have decided to stop loading the page, but there's a lot more on that one. There's also things like the amaguriken speed he hit Ryoga with, the speed he showed in the food fight, and many many more.

plus the fact ranma was able to swim from japan to china

http://web.archive.org/web/200612171836 ... ranma.html

ryoga

Fighting-skill: Ryoga is an exceptionally proficient martial artist, roughly comparable to Ranma, whom he has defeated or fought to a draw on many occasions, especially during shorter or off-screen battles, having triumphed roughly twice as many times as the opposite if these are included (times of outside enhancements or enfeeblements discluded), occasionally in seconds when sufficiently upset or similarly motivated, but also had a great disadvantage when the latter was far more focused while Ryoga was extremely flustered. Sometimes even Ranma has to distract or trick him to triumph in climax situations. Unlike most cast members, Ryoga seems to be mostly self-taught, with immense natural talent, and relentless hard training as his only mentors. Takahashi has mentioned in an interview that the reason for his great power lies in his constant harsh hiking life.

Physical Power: Under regular circumstances he appears to be a few times physically stronger than or, at the very least, as strong as Ranma. They have never outright competed in this area, since Ryoga tends to rely on skill and special techniques. Ryoga's greatest explicit feat happened during their ice skating competition. When supremely motivated, Ryoga here moved two enormous buoying blocks of ice (to catch/stop Mikado Sanzenin) and far more impressively was shown to hurl at least one of them, with an approximated weight of roughly 206 to 642 metric tons. He here used Ranma's head as a brace not to fall into the water, but the latter nonetheless supported the pressure from the floating slabs. Although, to throw the weight such a great distance would take some dozen times the effort from simply lifting it. Like with his chi-generation, it seems to undergo a boost depending on his emotional state, beyond his general conscious level, and (much like most 'Ranmaverse' fighters) the force of this seems to be his general power-source, but he has seemingly never used his full capacity to directly empower his physical traits, indirect and dispersed usage of which has been shown to eclipse even Lime in terms of raw power

Further comparative references include that Ranma broke his legs from the effort of supporting a 50-100-metre fall, while carrying four girls. Attack of the killer secret herb Then again, the latter likely remained severely weakened from poison at the time, so his peak effort should be greatly multiplied. Ranma also proved unable to get out when trapped under a 90-100 tonne large iron bell, without handicaps, but he wasn’t significantly motivated, and had no hold for his hands to grip

Female Ranma seemingly effortlessly pushed a roughly 40-tonne boulder into the mouth of the Yamata-Orochi while swimming underwater, when supremely determined to save Akane from being eaten. Also, when under the influence of a magic incense a simple hug from Ryoga almost crushed male Ranma's ribs. Other hints in this vein include that even a casual Ryoga seemed overwhelmingly stronger when Ranma pretended to be his "sister”. (almost knocking her out with a playful finger jab to her forehead) but Ranma was in female form at the time. Akane was terrified of his casual power, while she has not reacted this way towards Ranma, though Ranma may simply have better conscious muscle control. He was also the chosen counterpart for Lime, but that may simply have been a case of their most pronounced ability.

Striking Force: Other displays of strength include completely shattering a roughly 7 m-diameter, solid rock platform simply by prostrating on it and punching Ranma so hard that the latter made a 4 m diameter, at least 0.5 m deep, indentation in a mountain

Stamina: Ryoga also appears to have greater durability, honed through years of training in the mountains and through Cologne's Breaking Point Training. Though the possibility exists that it is simply a more overstated trait than for his counterpart. He has been repeatedly struck with dense heavy objects, fallen hundreds of meters into solid rock, been covered in a rockslide, and even been caught in a closing chasm, without any damage whatsoever, and emerged ready to fight on. He was unfazed by a full force blow from Taro's monster form while a similar effort rendered female Ranma unable to continue fighting. But she was also struck through a wall and in a state of confusion about the latter's transformation. The demon's true identity Male Ranma was only briefly stunned on another occasion, when not restrained by these limitations. Ryoga was only slightly discomforted from hundreds of Ranma's punches landed in less than a second, but repeated efforts, and putting both of them in freefall, presumably giving the latter an opportunity to instead land thousands of punches, all instances directed at the same spot, together managed to knock him out. He apparently even stayed unharmed after he and Ranma were hit dead-centre by Happosai's smaller Happo-Daikarin, which are capable of knocking out Taro-monster in a single strike, while his rival was rendered unconscious, although the force greatly varies from occasion to occasion.

Limitations: Ryoga seems far more vulnerable if he is distracted and his guard is completely down, so it is not impossible that his durability is bolstered by active chi-infusion. Lime was able to almost beat him in one full-force blow by taking advantage of such an opportunity, after Mint tumbled at Ryoga’s back from behind, and the latter became angered at Mousse for not keeping his fight contained. He has also been knocked out by an unexpected staff blow to the larynx from Mousse, while completely focused on Ranma who has likewise managed this feat. For example by showing Ryoga Ukyo's breasts, paralyzing him from embarrassment, and then kicking him through the school wall or by hitting the embarrassed Ryoga's head with a stone pillar from behind, when the latter's eyes were closed, since he was tricked by Shampoo into believing he would get a kiss from Akane.

Speed: While initially an even match, Ranma briefly gained a severe advantage in swiftness and skill after undergoing a power-up at Cologne's hands, but Ryoga quickly catches up in these areas as the manga progresses. By the time of the 'weakness moxibustion' arc, he is able to simultaneously parry, disarm and beat up Mousse, Tatewaki, Principal Kuno and Gosunkugi in under a second. He likewise proved to be swifter than Mousse some volumes later, during an onsen race battle, where he avoided all the latter's attacks. Additionally, when Ranma is turned murderously jealous by a magic koi mark, Ryoga manages to narrowly avoid and parry the latter’s 'Amaguriken '-training enhanced supersonic barrage and later eventually best his rival In battle with the physically stronger and extremely durable Lime, he easily managed to stay out of his opponent's grasp until Mint's interruption. In the final story, he managed to effortlessly parry all of Genma-panda's strikes, while looking in another direction

Development: While he has occasionally thrown roughly 10-tonne boulders a considerable distance, Ryoga has not shown explicit feats of greater physical power later in the series. However he did improve his strength enough to stand up to Lime, who seemingly has an upper maximum of around 100.000 tones. More noticeably Ryoga seems to turn into a more balanced fighter, greatly increasing his shown speed, skill, versatility and durability. Near the end of the manga the author spoofs their relationship by portraying Ranma and Ryoga as two constantly feuding and completely evenly matched children, not counting Ryoga's more powerful and dependable force-blasts, which gave him a certain edge.

then there is the fact that ranma and ryoga are still just kids lets move on to the adults. all of ranma and ryoga's feats are from there own personal energy. people like terry bogard, geese howard and ryu are able to gather energy from the earth and all that is around them to create energy attacks and projectiles, even increase their own fighting prowess. geese howards raging storm is just that a huge storm of ki that bombards the opponent. Geese uses this move to destroy an entire forest. akuma is able to use the hado to drag people into hell. you also have the various orochi clans.

then there is the hokuto shin ken the series happens maby a generation after a nuclear war. the style itself is 2000 years old so its a safe bet that there is a succesor out there some where.

hokuto shinken

the average human only uses 10 % of there full potential. that means that peak human potential is only the full 10% plus batman has never shown any knowledge of any sort of ki technique, and for all his strength and skill he can keep up with the feats of the people i've mentioned.

further more i think the concept of ki isn't known in the dc universe meta-humans are a product of alian origin, god hood, or magic. this is probably due to the fact that the people who could actively use ki live like monks. i mean if you trained all your life to be able to be able to destroy a forest with your bare hands you wont waist that talent by becoming a super villian or hero. in the dc universe power of that magnitude are only for the superhumans. also would masters of that magnitude even be willing to teach someone like batman. geese howard was thrown out of his school and the only way he was able to get the Hakkyokuseiken's stronger techniques was by killing its successor and taking its scroll. akuma was driven mad becuase of the dark hado. then alot of them are family styles. so if some one like bruce comes a master like that, someone who has taken an oath to rid gotham of evil. would they trust their ki techniques to someone who holds so much anger. thats probably why he has so many gadets to compinsate for that.
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Re: how strong is batman

Postby three headed dog » Mon Oct 19, 2009 12:36 pm

There are a few things I could comment on that (more than I am going to):

Ranma is comparatively weaker because Ryoga has only one feat that seemingly surpassed Ranma's in strength and that was done while standing on Ranma's head? Ryoga has less control and doesn't care about destroying things, but I do not count one feat as being enough evidence to count Ranma as comparatively weaker. Every single other strength feat Ryoga has Ranma had either matched or surpassed (even in female form).

Ranma has used his super speed in non combat situations, For example he has used it to sneak up on Akane, one second she is alone the next he's there (he enjoys doing that in the manga), to cut up a salad, or to catch the food Kasumi dropped in surprise.

Ranma never said he fought his opponents full force, he says it would not be honorable if he did not take the battles during official duels seriously. That does not mean fighting full force, it is even extremely evident that he did not. At the beginning of the the breaking point arc he hit Ryoga hard enough to send him flying backwards with enough force to knock down a cliff-side. Since Mousse and Gosungunki were not sent flying in a similar manner he was obviously not hitting them full force.

I don't know if I would count it as casual power, rather a lack of control. Which is a bad thing, not a good thing, and in fact displays that Ryoga is not as skilled as people think he is (since skilled fighters can control the amount of force they are using).

It should also be mentioned that Ryoga fights with the intent to seriously harm and/or kill while fighting primarily on the offensive. It is far more difficult to fight a defensive battle than an offensive battle and it is far more difficult to not use killing or seriously injuring techniques while fighting (requires greater skill).

How was Ryoga initially an even match for Ranma in the speed department? Since Ranma was, even prior to that arc, fast enough to dodge the vast majority of Ryoga's attacks with ease, to the point he was capable of ignoring Ryoga mid fight to argue with Akane (were he not faster he would have been forced to block).

parry the latter’s 'Amaguriken '-training enhanced supersonic barrage


Not really Ranma was pretty much toying with Ryoga there, once Ranma took it up a notch Ranma moved his (technically her) body fast enough that Ryoga could not see her move (Ryoga got all bug eyed in surprise prior to Ranma kicking him in the head).

I also really do not see Ryoga's force blasts as being more powerful, sure the ultimate version is, that goes up then comes down is more powerful (also takes longer to set up and has an obvious and exploitable weakness) but their normal blasts are evenly matched.

There is more I can say, but I have things to do.

p.s. the links to Ranmahentai.ws do not work.
Last edited by three headed dog on Mon Oct 19, 2009 3:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: how strong is batman

Postby toushin » Mon Oct 19, 2009 1:01 pm

sorry about that the stats i got are from the ranma wiki i was looking for a web site that gave all of ranma's feats throughout the manga but i couldn't find them. the last link i have for ranma will work the others wa the closest thing i could find on what i was looking for
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Re: how strong is batman

Postby Lioconvoy » Sun Nov 08, 2009 9:11 am

toushin wrote:i just finished the jla/avengers crossover and there was something in it that struck me. in the scene were captain america and batman were fighting batman admitted that he would lose, he said it wouldn't be an easy fight but he would lose. that got me thinking how good is batman really, is he the master we are lead to believe. for instance what if for instance geese howard decided to leave south town and set up in gotham could batman do a thing to stop him. what if he had to fight bison ar ranma could he hold his own or would he end up being embarassed.


Between Batman and Captain America it really depends on the writer. Batman can be as adaptable as Ranma and can take down pretty much any opponent give the time to do so. Caps and honorable figher, and I don't think he'd go all out against Batman. Cap has a bit more battle experince than Batman being alive longer.

Vs. a fighting game character. Depends on which world. Their aren't any D.C. characters to my knowlege that use ki blast and the such, but if they existed in the D.C. universe Batman would take the time to master them. His power might not be as great and Geese or Vega, (Mike Bison being the Boxer, Barlog the Spanish guy.) but he'd find away to get around that. Basically Either would take down Batman once or twice, then they'd never win again.

Batman vs. Ranma: The outcome would vary every battle. Both learn form thier mistakes and from their opponents. Although Ranma could almost seem superhuman by D.C. standards, Batman has taken down superhumans before. Ra's Al Gual took down the entire Justice Leage with Batman's ideas. I think the two would possibly get along pretty well, and fighting Ranma would definitely raise Batman up as fighting Batman would for Ranma.
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