Naruto Manga Progression *Spoilers!*

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Postby Nekomata-sensei » Fri Mar 13, 2009 2:15 am

:shock: ... :D

<SPOILER>
Naruto just met the 4th in his mind after reaching 9 tails mode, the 4th's manifestation stopping him from ripping off the seal while controlled by the Kyuubi when Naruto was in super mental anguish from Hinata at least seeming to die right after confessing to him. I started squealing like an otaku just after seeing Goku go legendary super sayajin for the first time when I was still little enough to be engaged by the DBZ dub's plot. I don't know how, but Bakamoto has somehow managed to make the 4th so ridiculously cool that he even makes up for the totally unrelated fact that Sakura sucks a ton earlier in the series, and got a reaction out of me comparable to when Subaru went berserk on the numbers demanding 'Gin-nee' back, Nanoha first unleashed the starlight breaker, Peter Parker narrated about with great power coming great responsibility, Ash was resurrected by Pokemon tears, Scarlet Witch summoned the latest incarnation of the Mighty Avengers while the world is wracked by chaos magic as the recently returned from being a Skrull captive while the Skrulls ruined his reputation Dr. Pym declared 'Avengers Assemble!', or Optimus Prime spoke about humans and their potential in the live action Transformers movie.
</SPOILER>

:mrgreen:
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Postby Dumbledork » Fri Mar 13, 2009 2:42 am

Oh, God! I knew I shouldn't have read this. I haven't followed Naruto for more than 6 months now and my morbid curiosity made me read your post. Bakamoto should have stopped before Shippuuden.
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Postby Lioconvoy » Fri Mar 13, 2009 2:51 am

I don't know I've found the current storyline pretty interesting. I really hope the focus doesn't shift back to Sasuke anytime too soon.

You do know the Hank Pym Avengers thing isn't working out all to great.
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Postby Nekomata-sensei » Fri Mar 13, 2009 5:04 am

Lioconvoy wrote:You do know the Hank Pym Avengers thing isn't working out all to great.


That doesn't mean I didn't find that moment damn exciting.

Anyway, back to Naruto, I've been keeping with it, mostly because while the Uchiha in general are really annoying, Bakamoto occasionally redeems himself in various ways. The legendary sannin are all really well made characters who help drive interesting plot, Orochimaru is a villain deserving of praise for character design, comparable to Darth Sidious or Magneto in how memorable and villainous he is. Tsunade is one of the coolest female heroines in fiction with an actual three dimensional character, most female heroines, even ones deserving of praise, lack the depth and mix of ups and downs Tsunade displays, or if the have that, lacks the coolness Tsunade pulls off, at first she looks like a whiny, depressed, overly endowed, white mage type, then 'BAM' Super Strength Regenerating Hokage! Jiraiya takes the typically ancient pervert master sage character archetype, then flips it on it's ass by actually making him somewhat successful and tasteful of his pursuit of women, a successful novelist, with a nice conflicted past and regrets, but still full of big dreams and hopes despite being an old man, wise, but not in an 'enlightened master' sort of way, but instead wise in life sort of way more like Sakkashi Shio from HSDKenichi.

I also find Naruto himself a much more acceptable character than a lot of other shounen heroes. While he fits a lot of the sterotypes the others seem to have, he actually adds some real cleverness to that 'raw power unlocked in stages for next villain' bit using actual strategy and trickery and stuff, even if it is just because it is a ninja story, on top of this, he has that annoying, over used sob story background of everyone hating him for reasons beyond his control related to his special powers, and overcoming a few of the other named characters' prejudices with his actions, but manages unlike those other sorts to do it without becoming a brooding anti-hero with a fowl mouth, but instead a cheery person who helps change others (rather than being the one changed by some crying girl he has to save over and over).

My biggest annoyances are probably Naruto's team-mates and Kakashi. Kakashi started out with potential, what with his whole 'I don't let my comrades down thing' but his lack of noticeably training Naruto pre-timeskip besides the whole tree climbing episode, which was the whole team anyway, his somewhat lame masks and lateness character gimmicks, and the cheategan which it half kills him every time he seems to use it (and eventually does it seems) annoys the heck out of me. Sakura got better, but before the time-skip she was pretty much a waste of space who got a few moments to shine in weird ways, like her forest of death fight and being good at chakra control and all super smart, and countering that sleep genjutsu during the invasion. I actually liked how she was a Sasuke fangirl, and wasn't supposed to be cute or anything particularly special, but I would have liked it better if she did more than just stand around holding a kunai, even if it was actually to beat some enemies with said kunai, use some traps or something, or maybe, I dunno, get taught something useful by Kakashi. In the end, I blame how much Sakura sucks on Kakashi and Bakamoto who couldn't be bothered to develop her character before the time-skip. Sasuke's whole brooding Avenger thing, and then how they still want to rescue him after he betrays them? Nope, he's totally not redeemable as a character, and was obviously just a projection of the gay fantasies of Bakamoto, (Orochimaru seems like a pedo for Sasuke, Naruto has a kiss scene with him before they even become ninja, and everyone likes the bastard for no damn good reason other than _maybe_ looks and being a kick ass ninja) and he is tremendously annoying with how he gets to be a jerk all the time but you know in the end Naruto is going to 'save' him and they'll be friends again or he'll have some heroic sacrifice against the final bad guy and acknowledge Naruto as his brother or something dumb like that, despite that they should hate and kill him for his treason, and he is perhaps even more two dimensional, even one dimensional, a character than Sakura (O woe is me! I is super cool, but not cool enough damnit, I'm going to make an ass of myself trying to get power and everyone will still love me anyway, not that I care about that!).

Perhaps the dumbest point in Bakamoto's history was redeeming Itachi (or at least Madara's story claims it) it made sense, given how powerful Itachi is, as there are points where he should have really kicked ass and the goodguys should have gotten screwed if he hadn't been secretly holding back, and they didn't really develop a proper motive for the Uchiha massacre before that, the 'testing my capacity' thing rang bull$H!7 to me from the start, it just doesn't make sense for a motive of someone who would leave Sasuke alive, unless he was totally bonkers, in which case it might have been more plausible to have him act a bit more unhinged.

I just hope that Kishimoto continues with his recent improvements in plot and character focus...
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Postby CRBWildcat » Fri Mar 13, 2009 10:38 am

I can't really claim to be that analytical. Whatever it was that got me focused on the series to start with, I've pretty much forgotten about it. :)

In any event, I don't like one character any more than the others, with the possible exception of Team Eyebrows. Humor's always been my thing more than drama, anyhow.
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Postby Ran » Sun Mar 15, 2009 6:24 pm

I only caught up with the manga in the past couple of weeks, but I've been really enjoying it. Perhaps the Sasuke stuff didn't irritate me because I could just read it as one lump rather than wait as it came out chapter by chapter.

But it has interesting characters, funky powers and some really neat fight scenes.

I think that Kishimoto has been doing a good enough job that I'm buying the manga as they come out over here.
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Postby Yrael » Sun Mar 22, 2009 7:38 am

The manga really has improved storywise by leaps and bounds since it left Sasuke and started concentrating on Naruto again. This last episode is especially awesome for the reasons mentioned above.

There for a bit I was getting rather burnt out on things, but now I'm finally enjoying the manga once more.
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Postby CRBWildcat » Sun Mar 22, 2009 2:45 pm

The manga really has improved storywise by leaps and bounds since it left Sasuke and started concentrating on Naruto again.


Just as well, considering that the container for the eight-tails had just gotten done making Sasuke and Akatsuki look like a bunch of idiots just so he could go on vacation. If I were him, I'd be embarrassed to show my face, too. :lol:
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Postby Rei-chan » Wed Apr 29, 2009 5:31 am

Since this thread is already here it seems the place to put this.

Is the guy who made this series even paying attention to what he's already written? I am not going to harp on anyone's powers or even techniques but I must really admit I think the Sarutobi had to have been smoking some of the strongest drugs in the world when he did what he did with the kid after the sealing back when it happened. We get the flashback so we find out Naruto's mother is indeed an Uzumaki and on top of that one if not possibly the only survivor of Whirlpool. Giving him that name gives away that he was her son and in a world of ninja do you really think the enemies wouldn't know who was shacking up with the number one on their hit list? He might as well left the kid to his proper name for all the protection that would have granted.

At any rate he is now staring down the man that killed two of his teachers and a woman he calls sister while Danzo is no doubt about to mobilize to kill Tsunade and he is talking to him? I have a limit to what I'll buy the virtuous noble young man doing and that crosses it.

Sage mode cracks me up like you wouldn't believe just because of all the horse crap about getting Naruto to stay still but honestly I would expect someone housing the supposedly godly power of the Kyubi to be that strong normally to be honest. Also did some digging and I found it strange that Kakashi is younger than Kurenai but that is just personal opinion there.

Also I might as well ask something that has always bugged me. How is it that Naruto is the same age as the others when he already failed the exam twice? Shouldn't he be a year older than Team Gai?
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Postby Yrael » Wed Apr 29, 2009 6:36 am

As much as I like the manga/anime, their continuity and consistency are rather horrible. Everything relating to Naruto's parents are a prime example.

Sarutobi - I can't name you after your father because it would make you a target, so I'll name you after your mother which is just as bad.

Kakashi - Sure, you may be my sensei's only son, but I'm not going to give you any decent training until after you've been my student for a few years.

Jiraiya - Hi, you're my godson, and the only child of one of my favorite students. Sorry, but you're still going to have to be an orphan, and I'm not even going to check in on you until I run into you by accident on day. Sorry about that "nobody ever being there for you thing", but hey, you made it through, right?

Everybody in the manga who didn't know the Yondaime, including Naruto - What, Naruto is the Yondaime's son? I mean, sure, he could be his twin and all, but man that's a surprise.

There's also little gems scattered throughout.

Itachi - I didn't really kill out entire clan Sasuke because I'm an evil bastard, Sasuke. It was orders because the rest of the clan were as power hungry as my little brother. Oh, and all that testing your potential stuff? For your own good, of course.

Sasuke - Those bastards...ordering my big brother to kill everybody for the good of the village. Which he did because he cared so much about the village. I guess the only thing I can do is get revenge by destroying the village myself!

Madara - Ahh...*snicker, guffaw*...these idiots...never a dull moment.

Not to mention, Naruto is the poster boy for "When all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail." Even after all his development that seems to be aiming to put him on par with Sasuke, he's STILL using little more than Kage Bushin and a modified rasengan. I mean, seriously, when the hell are we going to see something new from him?
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Postby CRBWildcat » Wed Apr 29, 2009 9:04 am

At any rate he is now staring down the man that killed two of his teachers and a woman he calls sister while Danzo is no doubt about to mobilize to kill Tsunade and he is talking to him? I have a limit to what I'll buy the virtuous noble young man doing and that crosses it.


Does Naruto even know who Danzo is, by any chance?

Also I might as well ask something that has always bugged me. How is it that Naruto is the same age as the others when he already failed the exam twice? Shouldn't he be a year older than Team Gai?


Maybe he tried to take it beforehand without knowing what he was getting into. Who can say?

Not to mention, Naruto is the poster boy for "When all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail." Even after all his development that seems to be aiming to put him on par with Sasuke, he's STILL using little more than Kage Bushin and a modified rasengan. I mean, seriously, when the hell are we going to see something new from him?


Well, if it ain't broke...

I can't claim to know all the details, having started late, but forgive me if I wait a while before asking anything major.
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Postby Nekomata-sensei » Wed May 06, 2009 1:02 am

Several details I'd like to make points on.

First, Naruto being the 4th's son. You have to remember several details, the 4th isn't the only blond haired blue eyed ninja in Konoha, and there are probably three times as many civilians with the same sort of looks. Also, it is implied the 4th's name wasn't very well known, and not very many knew him personally, maybe were assigned missions during the brief time he was Hokage, but not knew him personally. It is also implied he didn't actually marry Kushina and kept their relationship secret for her own and Naruto's protection.

On top of that, even if he had been married to her, I suspect there is a good chance the 4th would have taken her name, because he is noted to be an orphan commoner of no ninja heritage, while Kushina's name Uzumaki is closely connected to the name of both her previous country and village, which strongly implies it is probably a noble ninja clan, and it is likely either a samurai clan or a ninja clan, that may have had some form of ruling power in the past, possibly even on par with a Diyamo or Shogun, except for a smaller country, so the 4th would probably marry into her family rather than the other way around.

Of course some people, like Itachi, seem to have known, or at least was referencing Naruto being the Kyuubi vessel, and at at least Jiraiya and Tsunade knew, but it isn't confirmed if the 3rd actually knew who Naruto's father was, nor Kakashi. By rough guess, Kakashi might have been in ANBU at the time and had some pretty severe problems since Oibito's death, despite being one of the 4th's students, the 4th might not have trusted him with the information about having a secret girlfriend and son. On top of this, Jiraiya has important duties outside the village and isn't well suited to raising a kid, plus Jiraiya dragging Naruto around at a younger age would have made Naruto more of a target in a less well guarded place, as despite Jiraiya's power and traveling around, he is in no way as safe as being inside Konoha itself, and Konoha somehow _did_ manage to keep Naruto being the Kyuubi vessel secret from the other 4 great ninja villages, which says something about their security. If they could keep that secret when most of the adult _civilians_ in Konoha know Naruto's identity as the Kyuubi vessel, keeping the fact that Kushina had a relationship with the 4th secret was probably child's play, not to mention that it is questionable the number of people who actually knew about Kushina, since people don't bring up Naruto's mother, and she may have been one of many refugees from allied countries escaping to Konoha during those times. Naruto also looks similar enough to Kushina ignoring hair and eye color that just about anyone he could have inherited hair and eye color from could have been his father, including someone from outside Konoha, or someone who wasn't a ninja. A connection to Jiraiya on the other hand would have people immediately suspicious and make Naruto a target right away if he was seen traveling around with him before he could even defend himself at all, and since Jiraiya was known to be the 4th's teacher and Naruto is very similar looking to the 4th, that certainly would have drawn connections, particularly if Jiraiya was openly his godfather and even without that, a ninja trained by Jiraiya is likely to become quite the legend if they live, making Naruto a prime target. Plus Jiraiya is just busy with his spying duties for Konoha outside the village, and other than that, is partly retired with his own hobbies, and as much as the 4th and Kushina liked Jiraiya, I doubt they would have asked him to raise Naruto for them in case of their deaths, since Kushina wouldn't have wanted him to become a super pervert and Minato knows Jiraiya can protect Naruto better by keeping an eye on Konoha's enemies away from Naruto.

As for Naruto's age and failing 3 times at the academy, my guess is that there were either early chances to graduate with several months of remedial classes, or they may have staggered the specific tests. For instance, Lee is incapable of ninjutsu or genjutsu, and has messed up chakra or something, but he still managed to pass based on getting a great score on taijutsu tests. Naruto's final testing day may have only involved the shown ninjutsu demonstrations and perhaps paper test, and it may be that he failed three tests, but he might have passed more, perhaps he failed tracking, taijutsu, and ninja theory, but got passing scores on tool use, traps, stealth, and evasion (thanks to his pranking expertise), and he needs to pass the final ninjutsu exam to barely make an overall passing grade. This would cause Naruto to remain with his age group.

The other possibility is a sliding scale of when you can graduate, being able to take graduation tests early if you have the talent would help explain cases like Kakashi and Itachi. Naruto, being particularly eager, may have taken the test early several times, but failed the early attempts, and is now taking the test for his own age group's standard graduation, and staying any further would be more like remedial special courses or something, and likely embarrassing. Sasuke may have taken similar early test attempts in order to compete with his image of Itachi, or he may have waited in hopes of focusing on personal training or something related to his sharingan, and wanting to be able to use it properly before graduating or something, or thinking he'd have more time for personal training if he continued at the academy rather than starting on missions. Lee's team may have all been ones to take the test a year early, Neji being a genius Hyuuga with clan training, Tenten being a weaponry expert, and Lee being a particularly motivated hard worker who may have found out about the potential to wind up on Gai's team if he graduated that year and was working crazy hard in everything else to make up for his lack in ninjutsu and genjutsu ability, and knew Gai was a nice taijutsu expert who believed in him.

Even if Kakashi knew about Naruto, he is still pretty messed up psychologically if he is still imitating Oibito's lateness by the time he starts teaching team 7, and I doubt the 3rd would have let him adopt him, plus it brings some similar dangers as if Jiraiya was caring for him, and Kakashi was busy with lots of constant high level missions and a particularly valuable ninja. For all we know, Kakashi may have also been commanding a group of ANBU that secretly watched over Naruto from distance to protect him from people driven mad by grief over the Kyuubi or other sorts of enemies that might have targeted him for his parentage or something and keeping an eye out in case there is a problem with the seal, it wouldn't be surprising if Tenzou, for instance, had a lot of time spent watching out for Naruto from afar, or at least keeping track of his chakra signature or something, or at least lived in a place nearby Naruto's apartment to be close by in case there is trouble. Even if Kakashi wanted to care for Naruto, with his various issues, as well as the age he was at when Naruto was orphaned, the 3rd might not have allowed it.

In addition, I wouldn't be surprised if the 3rd was made Naruto's guardian in case of the death of his parents, as the 4th might not have expected the 3rd to become Hokage again in the event of his death, but for someone like Jiraiya or Tsunade or some other younger legend to take over, since the 3rd had already retired, and the 3rd was probably trusted by the 4th. The 3rd probably avoided telling Naruto his father's identity for fear with his personality that he'd brag about it or tell people to try and get them to like him, as it needed to remain as secret as possible for Naruto's protection, or he wanted to avoid Naruto growing up with similar troubles Asuma or Konohamaru might have had, and it may have even been a request of the 4th, and later on he may have waited after Naruto found out about being the Kyuubi vessel because of the painful idea that his own father had sealed it in him might have been a bit of an overload and wanted to wait till Naruto was more comfortable with the idea and had matured some more, then he died during the invasion before ever getting around to it. I can imagine that he may have wanted to wait till Naruto made chuunin or jounin or turned 16 or something before telling him about it. Particularly if he kept the Kyuubi vessel thing secret for so long.

Also, I'd like to note that while Naruto may largely eat ramen and cereal, that seems more related to not knowing how to take care of himself properly that not being able to afford anything better, particularly since he seems to have a relatively nice apartment and that plant collection, and likely spent a good amount of money on pranking supplies or gimmicky ninja stuff or childish frivolities, and might not have known how to properly spend his money, and I wouldn't be surprised if he's actually living off money left to him by his parents that the 3rd is managing for him and giving him an allowance of sorts for getting food and various other things he needs, but paying things like Naruto's rent and utilities for him.
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Postby Rei-chan » Sun May 10, 2009 8:17 pm

I see the sense of some of your arguments there Nekomata. However I still find that naming him Uzumaki is suspect regardless. Its a ninja world and honestly you couldn't hide who someone like the Fourth was dating in modern and current real world era much less in a world like theirs. Danzo, who seems to be the enemy of everyone, at least would have known without a doubt and should have realistically snatched the baby from its crib while everyone was arguing over whether to kill the child or not.

I agree that there are several other possible relatives to Naruto out there to diffuse the assumption that he is the Fourth's son but since he was used for the sealing, looks like him, and later behaves a bit like Kushina, I can't see how no one would catch on. Anyone reading the series knew he was the Fourth's son at least by the end of the first chapter.

I see where the argument for taking tests early comes from but it sounds to me like you have to be exceptional to be allowed to test out early. From the picture painted in the manga alone, not including scenes from filler in the anime, Naruto was no prodigy. Most schools don't have a habit of letting the failing students take advanced placement tests or classes I would think.

I also bring up another thing that bugs me due to rereading some explanations on the seal. Technically Naruto never had an option not to be a ninja. If this is the case, and considering his potential time bomb of unleashing the demon state, should he not have received some special training from someone? If not from Sarutobi directly then at least from Ebisu or someone.
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Postby Nekomata-sensei » Mon May 11, 2009 2:41 am

There are several reasons he couldn't just have been specially trained to be a ninja. First of all, anyone who dislikes him is going to complain about favoritism if Naruto automatically gets to be a ninja and gets special training when even prodigies of major clans like Neji and Sasuke don't.

Second, a large part of the point of teaching at the academy rather than individually is to encourage the development of an esprit de corps, a sort of comradeship among the ninja of leaf, to help insure future teamwork and loyalty to leaf as a whole. By training alongside their peers it increases their understanding and respect for one another, as well as their social skills and awareness of the relative levels of their own skills and techniques.

Third, it is sort of a testing grounds to develop an understanding of their character, skills, and potential as a ninja in front of multiple teachers. Irregardless of Naruto being the Kyuubi vessel, a certain level of competence is required for him to actually be useful in active duty.

I imagine in such a case that Naruto truly dropped out of the academy, he might be given special training not to become a ninja, but to resist the Kyuubi and potentially utilize it's powers to defend Konoha as a weapon in case of emergency, and possibly, if this tutoring was successful enough, also enable him to re-test as a ninja at a later date, once he has matured some more and the tutoring got through to him some of what he was missing. It is entirely believable that the 3rd wouldn't care too much how _soon_ he becomes a ninja, as it is conceivable that the Kyuubi's presence may have made his rate of development abnormal, not to mention his social isolation.

I admit, the 'taking tests early' theory holds little water in Naruto's case, but you have to remember, he _did_ seem to have some sort of favor from the 3rd, this may have enabled him to take the test early, especially if Naruto was particularly motivated and annoying about it, they may have let him do it, even though they knew he wouldn't pass. It also helps explain cases like Gai's team being the same age as the rookie 9 and Kakashi and Itachi's early graduations. However, it was only one of the possibilities I presented, I prefer the idea that there were multiple tests on different topics, and Naruto had to pass a certain number of them to graduate, and the failed times mentioned were out of a certain number, after all, the report card Sasuke brings home shows he was graded separately on various aspects of being a ninja, and Lee proves you can completely fail at ninjutsu and genjutsu and still get an overall pass, other early graduations may have been cases of being allowed to skip grades due to truly prodigious skills, and Lee's group may have been near enough to the age cutoff that while they were close to Naruto's group in age, they were just a bit older or something, or the author was just being weird.

Back to the thing with the 4th, it is nowhere implied Danzou knows of Naruto's heritage, he may _suspect_ that Kushina was involved with the 4th, but that would be based on Naruto's appearance, which could be explained any number of ways, including different blond haired fathers (I'm not clear on Kushina's eye color, she may have had blue eyes as well), that some aspect of the 4th's sealing method caused Naruto's appearance to mimic him, or any number of other reasons. It is likely that Danzou knew Kushina was Naruto's mother, possibly even that Kushina may have been friendly at some point with Minato, at least enough that she'd give up her son for the sealing, but I doubt he would have let Naruto run around normally if he knew, which is evidence he did not. It is more likely he simply believed Naruto's resemblance to the 4th a coincidence or aspect of of the seal, and that his choice as the vessel was due to the timing of his birth, after all, what are the odds of the 4th having a secret girlfriend who just so happens to have their illegitimate love child on the eve of the Kyuubi arriving at Konoha?

Danzou likely had a very strong desire to snatch Naruto up. There are several problems with this however, any good chakra sense tracker can probably detect Naruto easily, even as a baby, from anywhere in the world, due to the Kyuubi's chakra in his system, making it impossible for him to hide Naruto away, and Konoha is filled with other tracking specialist types, like Hyuuga, Inuzuka, and Abunarme, all of which are likely filled with members far more loyal to the 3rd than Danzou, and most of whom, even if they don't like Naruto, would rather the 3rd teach him peaceful philosophies and try to socialize him and keep him stable than Danzou to turn him into a heartless weapon loyal to Danzou alone.

Heck, even Danzou would probably question the sanity of raising a jinchuuriki of the most powerful bijuu in such a chancy situation as the way he trains his ROOT members, given the likely high levels of breakdown and insanity among the failed members that he kills off, compared to making it as pacified and reluctant to use it's power as possible, as well as as stable mentally and emotionally as possible.

On top of this, Danzou knows that while effective soldiers, ROOT style training can't produce ninja like the 4th or Kushina, the sort of strengths they posses are more self-developed and independent, and grow more in environments like the academy and close familial relations with a team and jounin sensei.

Danzou's objective isn't gathering up all the highest potential ninja and drawing them all into ROOT either. ROOT isn't Konoha's competition or replacement. It is the black ops of the black ops, it isn't meant to have high profile members, or 'weapons', it's members are meant to be simple, efficient, and highly secretive, and leave little to no evidence, and have no emotional involvement, only loyalty. He still wants there to be plenty of regular forces for Konoha, even if he was Hokage, he wouldn't change the system much. ROOT is his method of taking over or subverting the system, not his replacement for it. If he was the way you imply he would have been working with the Uchiha and had gathered up all sorts of the cannon prodigies from different clans. Instead it is implied that none of his forces come from special clans or bloodlines, and most of them are probably orphans he'd 'adopted' to a degree and had trained and psychologically conditioned from very early ages.

Make no mistake, Danzou is a villain, or at least, someone with great ambition that believes the ends justify the means, and quite likely a bit of a war hawk who believes in peace through superior blackmail, threats and firepower. He is not, however either an idiot or the Hokage, and he isn't eager to give anyone an excuse to have him assassinated for blatantly defying the Hokage, especially by doing things like kidnapping high profile targets to turn into his own counter-Hokage secret soldiers, but there is still no good proof he knows that Naruto is the 4th's child, Kushina's, likely, as it would have been hard to hide a pregnancy and Naruto shares her name, but odds of him being the 4th's child even if the 4th's relationship with Kushina wasn't likely kept secret from the perspective of someone who doesn't _know_ are slim, no matter his appearance.

In actuality, I believe Danzou more would have desired to take over Konoha as Hokage somehow and would simply assume or force everyone to follow him, Naruto included. He doesn't have to actively work on converting people if he just plans on taking over the existing system's top position. He doesn't _need_ to grab people like Naruto for his plans, they'll be his along with the rest of Leaf once the time comes, from his perspective.
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Postby Zwzn » Tue May 12, 2009 3:28 am

Nekomata-sensei wrote:
I admit, the 'taking tests early' theory holds little water in Naruto's case, but you have to remember, he _did_ seem to have some sort of favor from the 3rd, this may have enabled him to take the test early, especially if Naruto was particularly motivated and annoying about it, they may have let him do it, even though they knew he wouldn't pass. It also helps explain cases like Gai's team being the same age as the rookie 9 and Kakashi and Itachi's early graduations. However, it was only one of the possibilities I presented, I prefer the idea that there were multiple tests on different topics, and Naruto had to pass a certain number of them to graduate, and the failed times mentioned were out of a certain number, after all, the report card Sasuke brings home shows he was graded separately on various aspects of being a ninja, and Lee proves you can completely fail at ninjutsu and genjutsu and still get an overall pass, other early graduations may have been cases of being allowed to skip grades due to truly prodigious skills, and Lee's group may have been near enough to the age cutoff that while they were close to Naruto's group in age, they were just a bit older or something, or the author was just being weird.

Do we actually know if Rock Lee past the exit test for the academy?

Last time I checked Gia's team was about a full year older then the rookie 9, or at least most of the rookie 9.
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