Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha

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Re: Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha

Postby Uldihaa » Thu Sep 02, 2010 11:27 pm

While debating the morality of the TSAB in a different thread, I realized something that I had kinda understood before, but couldn't really define.

I'd like someone to check me on this, if ya'll don't mind.

The TSAB is a combined police force and military, right?

So that means there might be times when a case is more police-work, and times when it's more military, right? Like the Jewel Seed case being heavily police, while the Jail Spaghetti ( :lol: ) case was more military. Of course, it's all a matter of degree.

So that led to finally understanding why Chrono made so many decisions about the two cases in the first two seasons, while Lindy made so few. For example, Chrono handled just about everything not directly related to the Arthra, and yet heavily implied that it would be Lindy's decision to fire the AEC at the BoD.

My thoughts are that Chrono is in charge of things that are clearly police related, while Lindy is in charge of the ship and any military actions. When the two overlap, there are probably some leeway available for both. It explains why Chrono goes off to speak to Graham; he's a cop, and the BoD had pretty much become a military problem, thus making Lindy in charge. He goes to do his job, while his mother does hers.

That sound about right?

Also, why is Lindy an Admiral and yet in direct command of only a single ship? Wouldn't she have a flag captain to command the Arthra, if it was simply her fleet/sector flagship, for that? :? At that rank, you don't have direct ship command anymore, you have fleet/sector command, I would think. A captain rank would probably fit her actually duties better, wouldn't it? That's always kinda bothered this Navy brat :P
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Re: Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha

Postby Comartemis » Fri Sep 03, 2010 12:35 am

The TSAB is a combined police force and military, right?

I have never seen any evidence that the bureau is more than a police force that operates in a wide range of fields, ranging from territory protection and interdimensional patrol (the main branch) to disaster relief and peace-keeping (ground and air forces) to interdimensional law enforcement (the Enforcers, who seem to be the bureau's equivalent of the FBI). To my knowledge they are never shown performing the actions a military force would be expected to make, such as taking and holding territory (nor have we seen anyone they would want to take territory from; as far as we can see, the bureau is the only organization that operates on an interdimensional scale); their focus is on maintaining the peace on their member worlds and making sure their problems (i.e. Lost Logia and interdimensional criminals) don't screw up either their own or anyone else's worlds. Of course since they have such a massive number of tasks to perform the bureaucracy has to split itself up into the branches and the subdivisions and the Mobile Divisions and so on to handle the workload. At most they may possess something like a glorified coast guard, but a dedicated army? Not seeing it, at least not with the bureau's current manpower issues.

So that led to finally understanding why Chrono made so many decisions about the two cases in the first two seasons, while Lindy made so few. For example, Chrono handled just about everything not directly related to the Arthra, and yet heavily implied that it would be Lindy's decision to fire the AEC at the BoD.

That may be an arrangement between Chrono and Lindy rather than a matter of bureaucracy. Chrono is young and skilled but Lindy may feel that he needs more experience as a leader, so she lets him call the shots and only overrides him when she feels it's necessary.
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Re: Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha

Postby Uldihaa » Fri Sep 03, 2010 3:39 am

Comartemis wrote:I have never seen any evidence that the bureau is more than a police force that operates in a wide range of fields, ranging from territory protection and interdimensional patrol (the main branch) to disaster relief and peace-keeping (ground and air forces) to interdimensional law enforcement (the Enforcers, who seem to be the bureau's equivalent of the FBI). To my knowledge they are never shown performing the actions a military force would be expected to make, such as taking and holding territory (nor have we seen anyone they would want to take territory from; as far as we can see, the bureau is the only organization that operates on an interdimensional scale); their focus is on maintaining the peace on their member worlds and making sure their problems (i.e. Lost Logia and interdimensional criminals) don't screw up either their own or anyone else's worlds. Of course since they have such a massive number of tasks to perform the bureaucracy has to split itself up into the branches and the subdivisions and the Mobile Divisions and so on to handle the workload. At most they may possess something like a glorified coast guard, but a dedicated army? Not seeing it, at least not with the bureau's current manpower issues.


I think there is a some evidence though. The firing of the AEC on a target on an inhabited planet would be something one wouldn't let a purely police force do. And a military doesn't just conquer and hold territory, but 'projects power outside of their territory'. That's why I think the TSAB serves both roles, with emphasis placed on a police force. And the FBI analogy only goes so far, since the FBI actually can't act, legally, in the territory of a foreign power without consent; something the TSAB isn't shown to actually have, at least for Earth and other non-administered worlds. It's why I'm thinking it's a combination with slightly separated commands.


Comartemis wrote:That may be an arrangement between Chrono and Lindy rather than a matter of bureaucracy. Chrono is young and skilled but Lindy may feel that he needs more experience as a leader, so she lets him call the shots and only overrides him when she feels it's necessary.


If I remember right, it's specifically pointed out that Chrono was her ship's Enforcer, and I got the impression that he wasn't completely under her direct command. Actually, my very first impression was that an Enforcer was there to keep an eye the captain as much as handle anything else. I just didn't get the impression that it was just something they did, but was fairly routine. I think Fate is mentioned as to having also served as a shipboard Enforcer.

But I was trying to make sense of a frankly ridiculous command structure with poorly defined roles. Bleh, wish they'd done a better job defining just what the TSAB is, and isn't, supposed to be involved in. And can we really rule out the TSAB serving as a military, since there aren't any belligerent powers mentioned?
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Re: Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha

Postby Comartemis » Fri Sep 03, 2010 9:00 am

But I was trying to make sense of a frankly ridiculous command structure with poorly defined roles. Bleh, wish they'd done a better job defining just what the TSAB is, and isn't, supposed to be involved in. And can we really rule out the TSAB serving as a military, since there aren't any belligerent powers mentioned?

Serving as something and actually being it are two different things; see military police for instance. The bureau can't really have too much in the way of a military without a belligerent power opposing it because the politicians would need to justify the military expenditures to their taxpayers. Besides, the bureau doesn't have the manpower necessary to maintain an active military force, they can barely handle all their duties as a police force with what they've got.
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Re: Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha

Postby Pale Wolf » Sun Sep 05, 2010 3:46 am

If I remember right, it's specifically pointed out that Chrono was her ship's Enforcer, and I got the impression that he wasn't completely under her direct command. Actually, my very first impression was that an Enforcer was there to keep an eye the captain as much as handle anything else. I just didn't get the impression that it was just something they did, but was fairly routine. I think Fate is mentioned as to having also served as a shipboard Enforcer.

But I was trying to make sense of a frankly ridiculous command structure with poorly defined roles. Bleh, wish they'd done a better job defining just what the TSAB is, and isn't, supposed to be involved in. And can we really rule out the TSAB serving as a military, since there aren't any belligerent powers mentioned?


Think of the ship's head Enforcer as the CAG. Aside from commanding the... marines/fighters, since they're the same thing in Nanohaverse, the Enforcer is the ship's head of investigations. Think of Enforcer as a command track posting for combat mages.

Also, the TSAB is a military. Now, admittedly, it's a military set up like a police force, but... doing police work outside your borders? Which Earth clearly is? Yeah, that's military.
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Re: Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha

Postby Quickshot0 » Sat Sep 11, 2010 1:52 pm

Not to mention... which police force has the equivalent of high power military weapons at their disposal? Like their space craft or the arc'en'ciel then can install on them, Isn't that frankly ridiculous for the police?
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Re: Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha

Postby Comartemis » Sat Sep 11, 2010 2:21 pm

Quickshot0 wrote:Not to mention... which police force has the equivalent of high power military weapons at their disposal? Like their space craft or the arc'en'ciel then can install on them, Isn't that frankly ridiculous for the police?

Consider that the bureau regularly deals with artifacts that can kill universes and individuals who can dish out more death and destruction than some modern WMDs. No, it's not ridiculous at all, if anything it's underpowered. Regius alludes to bureau-wide manpower issues in StrikerS, if you remember, so even with all these resources backing them up they're still having issues.
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Re: Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha

Postby Quickshot0 » Sat Sep 11, 2010 4:52 pm

Considering that Midchilda is a former colony of Belka and considering in StrikerS you can see a large portion of the city utterly abandoned and used for combat training. One would start drifting to the idea that TSAB was an invention of necessity and that they are trying to stabilise the immense chaos left behind by the fall of Belka. Or maybe it's more like the immense chaos created by Belka and then all left for the remaining colonies when it got destroyed. (By the book of darkness in fact I believe...)

Taking that in to account, it seems likely the TSAB doesn't have near the resources it needs to deal with all the threats out there and just prioritises and deals with those it can and hope the rest don't end up hurting it badly. (The Huckebein family would be evidence of such as well I imagine) However, this also means it is very likely the TSAB is also the military arm, as there is no way you'd not be using your full military power in such a situation. This is especially likely considering that even when Midchilda itself was under thread of siege in the end of the StrikerS season, we only saw response from TSAB units.

As such, is there any reason at all to think that the TSAB does not also cover the military armed forces of the member worlds?
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Re: Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha

Postby Knight of L-sama » Sun Sep 12, 2010 2:17 am

While a chunk of the city is deserted, it's not used as a training area. Remember that Section 6 has a fairly sophisticated holographic training area that can simulate a deserted cityscape.
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Re: Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha

Postby Quickshot0 » Sun Sep 12, 2010 6:52 am

No in StrikerS first episode it's pretty obvious that they are running a test and it isn't a holographic training area, it is way way to large and expansive for that. That was a piece of new tech any way and only just starting to show up. Overall that looked like kilometers of abandoned city, which really is an unheard of thing in the modern world. The only cases I can think of is after major disasters war or otherwise, to cause some thing like that.
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Re: Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha

Postby Knight of L-sama » Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:41 pm

Quickshot0 wrote:No in StrikerS first episode it's pretty obvious that they are running a test and it isn't a holographic training area, it is way way to large and expansive for that.


Yeah, I just remembered that part after I posted.
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Re: Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha

Postby Uldihaa » Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:57 pm

Just finished watching the movie. And I'm immensely pleased with it!

What's changed is changed for the better, in my opinion. For example:

Precia's backstory is gone into in detail. While her acquisition of the Garden of Time is still a mystery, Alicia's death and everything revolving around that is finally shown. I have to admit to feeling a certain amount of empathy for the woman; very briefly, but far more than I'd had before.

I liked the dropping of certain scenes, like the onsen stuff and some of the scenes with Nanoha's family. It helped to tighten up the narrative. And the first fight between Nanoha and Fate was very nice.

I was pleasantly surprised at the inclusion of Raising Heart and Yuuno training Nanoha. Those scenes were very much appreciated.

I'm also pleased as to finally seeing the answer to just what effect Nanoha-verse spells have on buildings/inanimate objects. A lot, judging buy the effect of Fate's follow-through spell for Phalanx! :D I actually said, "Holy shit" out loud.

I really liked Nanoha's transformation scene. The more mecha-like bits really sold the idea of her being like a Gundam. But I really wish they hadn't given Nanoha nipples :cry: . So very squicky.

Anyway, I just thought to post this and ask if anyone else had here had seen it yet. I'm also looking forward to seeing what they'll do for the next movie, assuming there is one.
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Re: Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha

Postby Knight of L-sama » Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:38 am

AAAAAHHHH! I want my Blu-Ray to hurry up and arrive!
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Re: Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha

Postby runnerz » Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:24 pm

What I'm surprised about is that they went the purely manga route after Strikers.

Let's face it, Nanoha is not a manga type series-it is a fighting series predominantly, and fighting is best done in animation. Did they suffer a talent drain maybe? Were costs too high for the manga series?
The movies are nice, but they were released years after Strikers. I just don't see what the management behind Nanoha is doing-Manga probably sells, but turns me off to series like Nanoha.
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