Serial Experiments Lain as the root of GitS reality.

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Re: Serial Experiments Lain as the root of GitS reality.

Postby Spokavriel » Mon Oct 11, 2010 8:44 am

So lets look at ages if I have Ranma 16 in 1983. That would make him 73 in 2040. There are infirm people who died of "Natural Causes" no active ailment old age excuse in their 60's even in the past 5 years IRL. Its rare but not unheard of.

I don't want Akane to have her death coma whichever ends up being used back during the initial Lain incidents but the lack of border between the worlds could be useful in the coma possibility. Perhaps having her learning to detect Ki and Astral Project and she ends up noticing the aura of a student she saw the dead body of and follows... But how would Ranma not be able to chase and get her back like with Kidnappings?

One thing Lain doesn't appear to be is Omniscient. But would she even still be around in the Wired?

Would it make more sense for Ranma to be noticed in a newly created situation for Section 9 or during Laughing Man. Perhaps as someone who is confused about all the talk about the logo? Or the Individual Eleven? Someone who was near by and seemed out of place? Or even more confusing changing form in plain sight. Would the Major think it was a hack? You know like she did when she felt the pull to that one store where some people keep their memorabilia.
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Re: Serial Experiments Lain as the root of GitS reality.

Postby Mitchell » Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:28 am

Actually at the end Lain is Omnipresent in the wired (Lain watches quietly, knowing and seeing everything to quote wired lain before she was erased at the end.)and while she removed herself from the physical world, while at the same time restoring the border between reality and the wired (aka the human unconscious). I REALLY doubt Akane would be able to be able to learn to astral project that easily and be able to follow the aura. Other than the people (usually children) who developed the virtual adept power 'naturally' its a very difficult ability to develop naturally. Not even the Greater Dragons to a degree can figure out (iirc) how the virtual adepts are doing it, and in fact some of them interested in the internet had to get fantastically expensive custom rigs set up to enter the Matrix (the virtual internet setup of the shadowrun universe.)

Lain I doubt would not really be active I see but to the greatest of the greater virtual adepts as part of the deepest resonances in the very core of the Matri 2.0 since I doubt the original matrix crash would be enough to kill her.

A more likely scenario of Ranma getting to at least virtual adept page would be probably something to do with the KIDS experiment in Lain. The scientist who preformed it gathered kids with the most powerful parapsychic powers he could find to preform it (kids naturally had higher levels before they settled down with age in Lain IIRC, though it was barely enough to be detectable even with the most sensitive equipment). You could go that one of Ranma's Students or even his kid was used, the ki abilities of the student of somebody like Ranma would probably qualify. Hmm..this might be part of what created the deep resonance to a degree.

And yes while there are people in RL who have died in their sixties remember the example of the two best martial artists we have, Happosai and Ku Lon who can regularly kick the main Ranma cast around while being over a hundred if you take the manga comment or 300 if you for some reason go with the anime.
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Re: Serial Experiments Lain as the root of GitS reality.

Postby Spokavriel » Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:35 am

I was trying to say it wouldn't be impossible for Akane to die of old age in that time frame especially if she started getting poisoned by her own cooking finally accepting the lesson to taste test before trying to serve.

Edit: I just realized we are on allot of Ranma tangents. I admit they help work out the back story but that isn't really the point to this thread. I started it to really ask for help to work out the time line for the world from Lain to GitS not Ranma to Lain. But it has been extremely informative and thank you for it. But can we try to work out a bit more history for Cyberization?
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Re: Serial Experiments Lain as the root of GitS reality.

Postby Mitchell » Mon Oct 11, 2010 11:05 am

Ok. Lain the series takes place 'present day' but before cyberisation is common (though its close seeing as how one of the people who wanted to enter the knights of eastern calculus was using an external computer rig with a visor for virtual reality, and the MiB had external hardware that was connected enough with them that it was possible to kill them with it. GiTS is going to be hard to really justify if you do want to keep the Shadowrun universe, but happens in 2030 (well stand alone complex does, not the movie). I forget when the first 'Matrix Crash' happened in Shadowrun but thats a tangent (though it would be catastrophic in a GiTS universe)

One thing if you do keep shadowrun elements is that in GiTS even people living on the streets are likely to have cyberbrains, that can't work for Shadowrun instead people mainly use vision overlay or enhanced reality (if not true virtual reality for the true enthusiasts) with no change of their brains.

Another thing of note is that the Major received her first fully prosphetic body when she was six, and is about in her thirties in the series which puts it close to the point we should have fully functional bodies and the technology to transfer people over (and the cyberbrains etc etc).
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Re: Serial Experiments Lain as the root of GitS reality.

Postby Spokavriel » Mon Oct 11, 2010 12:44 pm

I haven't been sold on using Shadowrun anyway. Like I said before all I personally know of it is from the Video Game no source materials or anything like that. The Major's age at getting her full prosthetic body and the events related between her and the Bleached out Cyborg in 2nd Gig are a big reason why I feel better going with 2040 instead of 2030 shown in the opening screens of the Laughing Man arc.

But if you look at that first episode They make determinations of if someone is a Cyborg or not purely on physical abilities more often than not. So that is another way they could make the assumption about Ranma. Say if they see him roof hopping.

I'm not sure Shadowrun would allow for any possibility of the Ghost Copying device seen in the stand alone episode with the Hero caught up with Drug Dealers.
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Re: Serial Experiments Lain as the root of GitS reality.

Postby Mitchell » Mon Oct 11, 2010 2:00 pm

Hmm..while its been a while since I went through my shadowrun source books I'm not sure it would, well not technologically at least.

2040 is probably a better than a 2030 for GiTS if you want to link Lain to it.
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Re: Serial Experiments Lain as the root of GitS reality.

Postby Spokavriel » Mon Oct 11, 2010 2:25 pm

Then there's also the episode with the Multiped Tank. His Parents and their Religious views prevented any Prosthetics and yet his brain was still encased. And it was that Brain Case that was hooked up to the tank.

Doesn't that make a case for State mandated encasement of minds in childhood say for Public Health or other related reasons? Why else would he have had his brain less than purely natural?
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Re: Serial Experiments Lain as the root of GitS reality.

Postby Spokavriel » Tue Oct 12, 2010 7:55 am

No thoughts? Did bringing up the brain case catch make it so no one can help making sense of this in between time?
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Re: Serial Experiments Lain as the root of GitS reality.

Postby Mitchell » Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:38 am

That episode is rather interesting in that he was dying from a easily curable disease but couldn't get it because the parents religious beliefs held him back..and yet as you mentioned the brain case was hooked up to the machine. However I'm entire convinced that he might have had the 'brain case transfer' or whatever it was AFTER he left his parents home, there is no indication that you have to be young to get one (see Aramaki has one, and a few of the other older politicians, men who are at least in their fifties in the world of 2030 and yet have brain cases. This raises the question of why he didn't have the surgery he needed to save his life and my only answer was that it was already fatal by that point, the operation needed would have to be done while young or something.

However yeah I would imagine that a basic commercial model brain case is fairly standard in GiTS, since even street people have them.
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Re: Serial Experiments Lain as the root of GitS reality.

Postby Spokavriel » Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:50 am

There are allot of destitute cyborgs making due with recycling other peoples damaged and discarded prosthetics if I remember that Nuclear Material episode in 2nd GIG correctly.
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Re: Serial Experiments Lain as the root of GitS reality.

Postby Wyrd » Tue Oct 12, 2010 10:31 am

I have my own computer back again. yay!

I'm not sure Shadowrun would allow for any possibility of the Ghost Copying device seen in the stand alone episode with the Hero caught up with Drug Dealers.


If you were going for a heavy crossover with Shadowrun, then no, it wouldn't. A full conversion is only possible with a cyber-zombie, a person who has had their spirit attached to their mechanical body through magic. This process inevitably drives the person insane, but makes for very effective troops for the year or two they last, and most of their parts can be recycled. Shadowrun does have chop shops that offer 'gently used' cyberware that, for obvious reasons, rarely came from willing donors unless it came from someone who had purchased an upgrade of that part and no longer needed the old one. I am only suggesting Shadowrun because there is so much source material for it and because many of its elements, especially the mixing of technology and magic, work very well with where you seem to be going.

On the matter of mandatory brain-casing, unless there is a very high incidence of people getting lost in the wired without one(better than 10% of children), I think objections to it would be too high for a government to get the law through. As Mitchell commented, you can apparently get one safely even if you are already an adult, and installing prosthetics of almost any kind in a child is a tricky issue because of the constant updates and replacements you would need to account for the growth of the body. An exception to this would be fully prosthetic bodies like the major's, because in that case you only have to make room for the brain to grow, or if there is no brain matter left, then there is no need for the body to grow at all until the inhabitant is ready to move to a new model.
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Re: Serial Experiments Lain as the root of GitS reality.

Postby Spokavriel » Tue Oct 12, 2010 10:42 am

I still find it strange that The Major was using multiple brain cases. Was her original brain in any of them?
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Re: Serial Experiments Lain as the root of GitS reality.

Postby Spokavriel » Wed Oct 13, 2010 9:48 pm

Another thing on Lain. Omnipresence is not Omnipotence It doesn't even assure an infinite awareness. If there is a limit to that awareness. Which there appeared to have been for everyone in the series no matter how jacked in they were. If that does have a limit then there might be times and places where maintaining the barrier between Physical and Wired worlds might slip her notice at times.

That would open the possibility for further unexpected deaths due to disconnecting from peoples ghosts. There is a GitS precedent for that with the guy who changed his own cyberbrain into an unintentional trap displaying the greatest movie his imagination could ever create but in his life he was incapable of bringing it out into reality.
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Re: Serial Experiments Lain as the root of GitS reality.

Postby Spokavriel » Thu Oct 14, 2010 10:25 am

I was just looking at GitS Public Security Bureaus and I was thinking Ranma might do well with the other survivors of the NWC to fill out Public Security Section 7. Nickname the Luck in Chaos squad. Since no one would believe the things its members survive with absolutely no Cyberization. Nor believe their seemingly supernatural abilities. Like other sections their information would be need to know which would be why even with being in PS as well other sections wouldn't have overt knowledge of Ranma. Or am I reading into the isolation of the sections wrong?
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