Here's a thought for a Naruto fic...

[GenocideHeart]

By the way, here's a tidbit for you.
Kishimoto says Tsunade trained Sakura hard.
But Tsunade is the HOKAGE. You know, head of village, not to mention all Fire country ninja? VERY busy woman?
I refuse to think the free time she may have had was enough to turn Sakura from utterly useless to OMG BADASS MEDIC NIN like she did in the timeskip. It just doesn't compute that she made more progress than Naruto in the same time, with arguably LESS training.
Kishimoto, who are you trying to kid? Sakura's new 'skill' is completely unrealistic, and only a desperate attempt to make her not suck... pity it instead makes her into an insufferable 'cheap powerup' girl.

[Moshulel]

Just as another tidbit, let's look at the sannin performance as teachers:
Tsunade >>> Shizune
Orochimaru >>> Anko
Jiraya >>> Hokage ala Fourth
Nevermind the fact that Oro and Tsunade had other stuff to attend to now, and they actually had more time for Anko and Shizune than Jiraya had for the fourth.
Now do we see a pattern here?

[Dragon Man]

Just as another tidbit, let's look at the sannin performance as teachers:
Tsunade >>> Shizune
Orochimaru >>> Anko
Jiraya >>> Hokage ala Fourth
Nevermind the fact that Oro and Tsunade had other stuff to attend to now, and they actually had more time for Anko and Shizune than Jiraya had for the fourth.
Now do we see a pattern here?

True. Jiraiya's students have all gained the most fame. So that means Naruto should become Rokudaime easily, or the Seventh Hokage if Tsunade is killed by Akatsuki or Orochimaru and he's still to inexperienced to take her place. Actually, Anko seems more useful than Shizune since we haven't seen Shizune in action mutch. But Shizune was leading a team during the Sasuke retrieval arc, so she must have some skills.

[Dark Magic]

Didn't Shizune get owned by Kabuto when they fought, I could be wrong it's been alittle bit since I read it. Kabuto is strong but if Shizune was personally trained by Tsunade, then she should at least be able to stand up to Kabuto.

[GenocideHeart]

Didn't Shizune get owned by Kabuto when they fought, I could be wrong it's been alittle bit since I read it. Kabuto is strong but if Shizune was personally trained by Tsunade, then she should at least be able to stand up to Kabuto.

You're assuming Oro trained Kabuto. Kabuto seems to specialize in medicine, while Oro seems to be more interested in alchemy and forbidden jutsu... I wouldn't be surprised if he was trained in the Leaf as a part of a plan to insert a mole in it.
Also, Shizune is nowhere near as good as people think she is. She displayed... dart skillz. That's it. I'm guessing Tsunade was too busy gambling and losing to properly train her.

[Dragon Man]

You're assuming Oro trained Kabuto. Kabuto seems to specialize in medicine, while Oro seems to be more interested in alchemy and forbidden jutsu... I wouldn't be surprised if he was trained in the Leaf as a part of a plan to insert a mole in it.
Also, Shizune is nowhere near as good as people think she is. She displayed... dart skillz. That's it. I'm guessing Tsunade was too busy gambling and losing to properly train her.

Exactly. Shizune is arguably the weakest of the Sannin apprentinces since we haven't seen enough of her in action. I won't deny she is a great medic since she lead the team in saving Neji after the Rescue Sasuke arc, but combat wise she sucks. Though if she used the chakra scalpel like Kabuto does at a more refined level she could kick ass.
[
Since Kabuto admits he doesn't have complete mastery of the chakra scalpel, it's possible a more medical oriented ninja like Shizune could maintain one long and precise enough to do the job but she couldn't get close enough to use it on him so she didn't. Plus during the Sannin battle she was preoccupied with protecting Tsunade. So she might be more deadly than we're giving her credit for but I'm not sure.

[Dark Magic]

I'm not saying that Kabuto was trained by Orochimaru, just that he beat Shizune, I tend to think that Shizune would be better in a hospital, and on a battle field, at least from what we've seen.

[Nekomata-sensei]

Yeah, I want to point out to GenocideHeart that Shizune was merely Tsunade's assistant, I got the feeling that she was allready mostly trained when Tsunade got her, and follows Tsunade around like a lost puppy ever since Tsunade left Konoha.
Tsunade, on the other hand was training Sakura as an apprentice. She might have been very busy most of the time, but the Hokae has more free time than you might think, especially if she shoves most of her paperwork off on other people. Also, she wouldn't need to be Sakura's only teacher in the medical arts or constantly watch over her shoulder. Tsunade pointed out that medical nins need to study a lot, I assume they have to read a lot of medical textbooks and study the body, plants, poisons, antidotes, sealing jutsu, etc. A lot of practice could be done under other teachers. Tsunade just has to overview and guide the direction Sakura's training takes. The only things we really know Tsunade taught her was the super strength, some philosiphies, made her practice dodging (sparred) with her at least once, and how to easily make perfect antidotes quickly.
As for the other senin's students, the 4th mostly created his own jutsu, and taught some of them to Jiraiya, such as the Rasengan. I'd say it was the 4th who made Jiraiya turn from a jounin sensei to a legendary senin, rather than Jiraiya who changed the 4th from a genin to a Hokage. Jiriaya seems to let his students mostly train on their own, occasionally giving them good advise or the basics behind some sort of training exersize and let them figure out it's purpose on their own. An environment in which the 4th thrived. Anko was trained by Orochimaru, I get the feeling that she's really strong, or at least she could be if she went all out, but she holds back because she's afraid of using many of the kinjutsu taught to her by Orochimaru, and she has trouble controlling the cursed seal, which basically changed her from an elite skilled in all sorts of advanced forbidden jutsu, into an average, almost taijutsu only special jounin, who can only use jutsu that don't use too much chakra.
As for Jiraiya training Naruto, I get the feeling that there was more to that training than is let on by Naruto's display of post time skip skills so far. For one, Naruto origionally didn't have a taijutsu style, it was obvious he was just street fighting with basic remembrances of ninja academy training and incorperating chakra use into it, he never had someone to spar with before, he made up for this by practicing what he did know a lot, having great strength, reflexes, endurance, and shadow clones, but his shadow clones were all easily beaten, and he was easily hit in a straight fight (he could just take the hits). The thing is that pre-time skip, there were clues that Naruto didn't even know how to read, didn't understand the basics taught at Ninja academy clearly, couldn't counter genjutsu at all, and generally didn't understand ninja arts beyond the most practical.
Post time skip, Naruto displays what might be a bit of knowledge of sealing jutsu (it seems like he might have sealed that suriken he uses against Sasori into that scroll) his taijutsu is notably more refined, he can even be a real threat to a member of Akatsuki when he goes berserker, he at least is able to try breaking out of Itachi's genjutsu (even if it has to be blantantly obvious it isn't real for him to try), he has new uses for his shadow clones, yet doesn't rely on them as much, he's got some cooky Rasengan varients (it's unclear wheather he can use it one handed or not), he can mostly control the amount of Kyuubi chakra he's using, going into tailed states at will (although controlling his mind as the kyuubi chakra fills him becomes more and more difficult, and getting back out of them is very hard) and he seems to have more general knowlege that he lacked pre-time skip. Still, Jiraiya probably left him mostly on his own for a lot of training, or got other people they met during their travels to train him in different things.
Sasuke shows the most blantant increase in abilities after the time skip, he's obviously surpassed Kakashi, learned a lot of jutsu from Orochimaru, mastered his three tomoe Sharingan to amazing levels (even able to dispell the Kyuubi's chakra since the Sharingan chakra is 'more cursed') he's learned sword fighting, and probably all sorts of other skills he's copies from orochimaru and various sound nins, and he's probably got all sorts of physical training, drugs, and rituals so he can get the strength, speed, conditioning, and stamina needed for the jutsus he copies. Still, this isn't as much a show of Orochimaru's teaching abilities as Sasuke's sharingan powers combined with Orochimaru's knoledge of forbidden stuff and willingness to do crazy things like cursed rituals and drugs to boost strength. Sasuke has eaten the devil's fruit so to speak, for his increase in power, but this probably comes with some strange weaknesses we haven't been shown yet, or some form or forms of mental instability beyond what he allready had.

[Mitchell]

I'm not sure but If I remember correctly didn't the curse seal permantly lower the glass ceiling of a nin? That could be Sasuke's weakness. He is probably gained the most post-timeskip however if he simply can't gain much more power...

[Nekomata-sensei]

I'm not sure but If I remember correctly didn't the curse seal permantly lower the glass ceiling of a nin? That could be Sasuke's weakness. He is probably gained the most post-timeskip however if he simply can't gain much more power...

No, I think what Kakashi was saying wasn't that it lowered his upper limits, but that he'd stop growing if he relied upon it for strength. It's like Kiba relying on soldier pills for stamina to use his moves, rather than training to increase his stamina. The 4 sounds are likely evidence of this, I have a feeling that besides learning new jutsu, they haven't gotten much stronger since they reached level 2 cursed seals, because rather than striving to achieve victory on their own power, and training hard, they rely on the cursed seals in battle to artificially boost their strength.
Sasuke wouldn't neccesarily have this glass ceiling if he trained hard and made sure he didn't rely on the cursed seal's power, as Kakashi advised him.
... Or you could be correct, and Sasuke has likely hit his glass ceiling and is forced to push it by using drugs and rituals rather than training, and relies on his Sharingan to learn new techniques and fighting styles. Orochimaru might use the cursed seals not only to control the minds of those he wishes to possess, but also to insure that they can never become stronger than him.

[Dragon Man]

No, I think what Kakashi was saying wasn't that it lowered his upper limits, but that he'd stop growing if he relied upon it for strength. It's like Kiba relying on soldier pills for stamina to use his moves, rather than training to increase his stamina. The 4 sounds are likely evidence of this, I have a feeling that besides learning new jutsu, they haven't gotten much stronger since they reached level 2 cursed seals, because rather than striving to achieve victory on their own power, and training hard, they rely on the cursed seals in battle to artificially boost their strength.
Sasuke wouldn't neccesarily have this glass ceiling if he trained hard and made sure he didn't rely on the cursed seal's power, as Kakashi advised him.
... Or you could be correct, and Sasuke has likely hit his glass ceiling and is forced to push it by using drugs and rituals rather than training, and relies on his Sharingan to learn new techniques and fighting styles. Orochimaru might use the cursed seals not only to control the minds of those he wishes to possess, but also to insure that they can never become stronger than him.

I'd have to say I agree with that last part, that does sound just like what the snake pedophile would do. He obviously has some form of control over Sasuke besides saying he won't train him since he stopped Sasuke from using a certain jutsu against Naruto, Sai, Sakura, and Yamato.

[GenocideHeart]

The problem with Sakura's skill level is:
She knew an antidote to an INCREDIBLY RARE, NON-LEAF IN ORIGIN poison like Sasori's.
That kind of knowledge DOES NOT come in less than 3 years. It comes in a few DECADES of training and studying, and claiming Sakura is some sort of uber medic genius is bullcrap, especially when Kakashi flat out stated that her talent lies in genjutsu. Not ninjutsu, which is what medical skills are. Not taijutsu, which is what Tsunade's super strength trick falls into. GENJUTSU.
And now, all of a sudden, she's good at everyting? Sorry, I don't buy it even for a second.
And even with shoving paperwork on others, Konoha was recovering from an INVASION. The Hokage will be too busy forging new alliances and talking with envoys to waste time on some genin scrub just because she asked for it.
Kishimoto hasn't thought this over. It's that simple.

[Moshulel]

I have difficulties understanding your statements about Sasuke...
Already Kishimoto removed most of the after effects of the curse seal, come on look at the Sound 5. And doesn't anyone remember that you have to DIE to reach stage 2? That should stunt the potential of any nin.
By the way at the moment he taught the fourth Jiraya was already a legendary SANNIN!!!

[DCG]

That new Sasuke is all bullshit, it totaly trashs on most of the plot all ready laied down.
If you wana stay sane, just remember naruto ended at the time skip.

[GenocideHeart]

That new Sasuke is all bullshit, it totaly trashs on most of the plot all ready laied down.
If you wana stay sane, just remember naruto ended at the time skip.

You and I will get along just FINE, I can already tell that.
You used the exact same words I always say whenever someone asks me about the timeskip. There's so many inconsistencies and crappy plot twists, I just refuse to consider it canon. I call it an open end instead.