Ranma&Fate\stay night crossover idea

[Kilich]

That's a lot of feedback. Thanks.

Yes, i think that spring will give him quite of Medusa's reflexes. And keeping the blindfold, or\and tranforming it into glasses when not in *combat outfit* is one of them.
I think that summoning her *armor*\chain should something intuitive to him, like bringing his battle aura to life.

Hm. Then will not only clueless master\competent servant pair (Shirou\Saber) but a competent master\clueless servant as well.
And about Noble Phantasms. I really doubt that Ranma would use her Blood Fort Andromeda anytime.
Maybe a Breaker Gorgona is possible on the enemy he he would otherwise have to kill.

[Muramasa]

Spirits can't bleed either but Servants do it all the time, hence Servants must be physical entities composed of spiritual energy. Jusenkyo might represent a loophole in the world's "Things that die stay dead" rule which leads to Servants requiring mana to keep the world from erasing their physical existences. Since Ranma has an existence of his own, the world can no longer erase Rider (or any other spirit from any of the other springs). In a sense, every single spring of Jusenkyo is a single-occupant Throne of Heroes.

That would mean Rider could exist indefinitely with or without a contract as the world isn't actively trying to destroy her (As it's unable). Granted they could still disappear if they stupidly overuse their noble phantasms but the Master/Servant relationship is far less crucial then it would be otherwise.

No kidding. There'll probably have to be some kind of safeguard built into the plot to keep Ranma from doing something stupid like taking off her blindfold in a crowded area, maybe give him some of Rider's memories and a few basic skills along with the curse.

That leaves me the question of "Just how much of Rider has Ranma inherited?"

Her body. Her powers. Some of her memories. All of her memories? Her spirit?

Which is why they shouldn't. Instead, when Shinji starts trying to "convince" Sakura to hand over her seals, Ranma starts channeling Simon and Kamina for a moment and gives a crude but inspirational "fuck you" speech that convinces Sakura they can win the war without killing Rin and Shiro.

Zouken could very well override Sakura if he wants Shinji to fight the war thanks to the worms and killing Zoken isn't an option since if he dies, Sakura dies. Of course Ranma could convince Zouken that she and sakura can win the war. Perhaps have Ranma kill a servant as a test. At the very least the Matou line wouldn't be completely embarrassed and Zouken would be content to leave everything alone.

[Muramasa]

:shock: That's a lot of feedback. Thanks.

Yes, i think that spring will give him quite of Medusa's reflexes. And keeping the blindfold, or\and tranforming it into glasses when not in *combat outfit* is one of them.
I think that summoning her *armor*\chain should something intuitive to him, like bringing his battle aura to life.

Hm. Then will not only clueless master\competent servant pair (Shirou\Saber) but a competent master\clueless servant as well.
And about Noble Phantasms. I really doubt that Ranma would use her Blood Fort Andromeda anytime.
Maybe a Breaker Gorgona is possible on the enemy he he would otherwise have to kill.

I believe the glasses you're referring to are actually another copy of the 'Mystic Eyes Killer' that Touko Aozaki invents and are seen from the main protagonist Shiki Tohno in 'Tsukihime'. If that's the case Ranma can't simply materialize such a potent item.

I also wouldn't call Sakura competent. She may have all the prana in the world (when she isn't infected with worms) but she isn't a magus or at least not a traditional one and you don't see much of her and Rider in action in any particular scenario. As is, I only put her a step or two ahead of Shirou since she does have knowledge of the war and what needs to be done to win it. No, the most competent magi in the 5th war would've been Rin Tohsaka, Kotomine Kirei and possibly Bazett if she doesn't suffer the same fate as per Fate/Stay Night Canon.

Shinji is far from competent. Illya is too obsessed with Shirou and Suichiro is almost a non-entity since it's Caster pretty much doing all the work.

[Comartemis]

I believe the glasses you're referring to are actually another copy of the 'Mystic Eyes Killer' that Touko Aozaki invents and are seen from the main protagonist Shiki Tohno in 'Tsukihime'. If that's the case Ranma can't simply materialize such a potent item.

Which begs the question, how did the original Rider get hold of a pair unless she is actually transforming her blindfold into her glasses?

I also wouldn't call Sakura competent. She may have all the prana in the world (when she isn't infected with worms) but she isn't a magus or at least not a traditional one and you don't see much of her and Rider in action in any particular scenario.

In Hollow Ataraxia there's a scene of her and Rider mowing their way through a hoard of phantom beasts, with Sakura chucking energy blasts in every direction. Dunno if she could do that with Zoken's worms sucking her dry, but I'd say she probably at least has the knowledge necessary to use magic, if not (at present) the ability.

One more thing we've forgotten to think on; at some point, Ranma's going to have to deal with Sakura's enhanced libido, or else sit back and let Shinji take care of the problem in his usual manner. And as reluctant and uncomfortable with the idea as Ranma may be, I cannot see him allowing Shinji to continue to abuse Sakura on the pretense of dealing with her problems.

That leaves me the question of "Just how much of Rider has Ranma inherited?"

Her body. Her powers. Some of her memories. All of her memories? Her spirit?

As much as the plot demands. Personally I'm in favor of a total fusion of existences, so Ranma has everything Rider had, including her memories, which are assimilated into Ranma's own memories in bursts and flashes of recollection.

[Muramasa]

Which begs the question, how did the original Rider get hold of a pair unless she is actually transforming her blindfold into her glasses?

Unless Rider or Sakura have a meeting with either of the Aozaki sisters chances are she doesn't get one. It's mentioned in Heaven's Feel True ending that Sakura does meet with Touko. Rider may have recieved a pair then.

In Hollow Ataraxia there's a scene of her and Rider mowing their way through a hoard of phantom beasts, with Sakura chucking energy blasts in every direction. Dunno if she could do that with Zoken's worms sucking her dry, but I'd say she probably at least has the knowledge necessary to use magic, if not (at present) the ability.

One more thing we've forgotten to think on; at some point, Ranma's going to have to deal with Sakura's enhanced libido, or else sit back and let Shinji take care of the problem in his usual manner. And as reluctant and uncomfortable with the idea as Ranma may be, I cannot see him allowing Shinji to continue to abuse Sakura on the pretense of dealing with her problems.

Crud... Hollow Ataraxia is one of my biggest blindspots as far as my knowledge of Type-Moon goes.


SPOILERS




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I'm of two minds wether it's considered Canon or not. It goes with the assumption that avenger was able to grant a wish to Bazett before Shirou was able to destroy the grail which is unlikely and the fact that avenger was able to grant a wish without causing the same disaster that devoured Fuyuki which also seems to violate some rules.

If HA is considered canon than I suppose Sakura could use prana blasts if it's Ranma. Not so with the original Rider and I'll tell you why. Since Sakura doesn't need to supply Ranma with nearly so much Prana she could use her remaining reserves the support him. However in F/SN, not only is she dealing with the worms but she's also supporting Rider which is bringing her reserves dangerously low.

That was one of the main reasons Sakura was *cough* using Shirou *cough* in Heavens Feel. And you're right Ranma has a bit of a moral dillema on his/her hands .

As much as the plot demands. Personally I'm in favor of a total fusion of existences, so Ranma has everything Rider had, including her memories, which are assimilated into Ranma's own memories in bursts and flashes of recollection.

Seconded. Sounds awesome. By the way, does anybody mind if I take a stab at this idea also?

[Kilich]

If anybody wants to try and use that idea for his own fic, then be my guest.

I think that it'll be even better for the the story if a writer,a better one than me, writes it as he sees it.

Oh, yeah. thanks for the feedback.

Update:

If that blindfold is Medusa's Noble Phantasm, i think she can control it good enough to simply change it's appearance. It'll be both easier and safer for others this way.

I think that Ranma would try to protect Sakura and keep her as her Master. And if she fails to do that, she might refuses to make contract with other people and continue to help Sakura out of her own free will(since she doesn't need constant flow of Mana to live).

And will be Ranma's curse locked for entire War? I wonder if Master\servant connection remains if it's not locked and Ranma can change back and forth(potential romance keeps glaring at me from this one).

Oh, and will Sakura(if she remains a Master) ally with Shirou and Rin? Because then they will be able to defeat anyone with numbers alone.

[Muramasa]

If that blindfold is Medusa's Noble Phantasm, i think she can control it good enough to simply change it's appearance. It'll be both easier and safer for others this way.

There is no canon evidence that says Rider is capable of any of that. Also Breaker Gorgon isn't so much suppressing Rider's mystic eyes as it is 'sealing them in a pocket dimension'. If Rider could somehow manipulate the blindfold into glasses, it would appear she would have gaping pits for eyes. Creepy as hell but I don't think that's what we're going for.

I think that Ranma would try to protect Sakura and keep her as her Master. And if she fails to do that, she might refuses to make contract with other people and continue to help Sakura out of her own free will(since she doesn't need constant flow of Mana to live).

Initially I think Ranma would have problems accepting his/her existence as a Servant. Hell, she'd have problems accepting that she's half girl (and technically his girl side isn't even human). Once she get's over these problems or at the very least is able to overlook them for the time being Ranma would probably find some way of rationalizing the existence of a servant with his own martial arts code. Example: "So being a servant is like being a protector or somethin' right?" Or something along those lines. Associating Ranma with servant or slave probably wouldn't sit with him very well. Also, yes Ranma would probably do everything in his/her power to protect Sakura and keep her safe. Things get a bit more dicey if/when Ranma has to protect Sakura from herself. Mentally, she's not exactly stable. Shirou was the only thing that kept her going for a long time. Without him, she'd probably break a long time ago.

And will be Ranma's curse locked for entire War? I wonder if Master\servant connection remains if it's not locked and Ranma can change back and forth(potential romance keeps glaring at me from this one).

Since 'Rider' is currently unable to function as a normal human being (blindfold,mystic eyes etc.), leaving the curse as normal gives Ranma a bit more freedom to work with not to mention it can serve as a decent disguise. We can have it that Ranma can't be detected as a Servant when in guy form. Jusenkyo magic is wierd like that. Locking Ranma's curse places more limits on him and the main arguement that keeps the world from outright trying to destroy Ranma is considerably weakened. Personally I have nothing against 'Lock' fics. I just don't think this story particularly works well with that premise.

Oh, and will Sakura(if she remains a Master) ally with Shirou and Rin? Because then they will be able to defeat anyone with numbers alone.

Sakura has a deep resentment for Rin. It got so bad to the point they were willing to kill eachother in Heaven's Feel. Sakura would be more than happy to work with Shirou (Anything for Sempai!). Rin... Not so much.

[Kilich]

Hm, if Sakura resents Rin so much, then she might try to ally with Shirou against her. And with Rin's initial behavior, it may not be very hard. But without Rin's help, Shirou and Saber might not progress nearly as far even with Sakura's and Ranma's help. (and if Shirou won't eat that jewel, then what happens?)

Also, according to wiki, Eclipse, the bonus episode of Ataraxia shows that Rider has deep feelings for Shirou. And even though Fate\Hollow Ataraxia is a "fan disk" sequel, maybe Rider does like Shirou.

If the story goes with *Ranma's personality merges with Medusa's dormant one*, i wonder how she will handle those feelings.

[Comartemis]

If the story goes with *Ranma's personality merges with Medusa's dormant one*, i wonder how she will handle those feelings.

I can't see how Medusa's personality could have feelings for someone she's never met, and since Ranma is the dominant personality it's still his mind we're working with. Unless you're set on writing a shounen-ai fic, Ranma should not and will not realistically develop feelings for another guy, no matter what kind of memories he's getting from Rider.

Sakura has a deep resentment for Rin. It got so bad to the point they were willing to kill eachother in Heaven's Feel. Sakura would be more than happy to work with Shirou (Anything for Sempai!). Rin... Not so much.

And yet the initial reason Shinji was able to threaten her into handing over Rider was because she didn't want to fight Rin or Shirou. They've got issues to sort out, sure, but their relationship shouldn't be anywhere near homicidal at the beginning.

[Kilich]

I can't see how Medusa's personality could have feelings for someone she's never met, and since Ranma is the dominant personality it's still his mind we're working with. Unless you're set on writing a shounen-ai fic, Ranma should not and will not realistically develop feelings for another guy, no matter what kind of memories he's getting from Rider.

I see your point. No, no Ranma\guy pairing is intended. I don't know if there'll be any pairing at all(my stories are mostly write themselves (all two of them -.-).

I suppose that Ranma will get summoned soon after the Jusenkyo Guide tells him how to change back.

The beginning could look like that.

After explanations from Sakura, Ranma agrees to be her guardian, so she could use Grail to remove her curse.
When Shinji comes to Sakura and Ranma learns how he treats her, she sends him into the hospital.
Later Ranma tells Zouken that with her help Sakura will definitely win the War (well, she does have quite an ego) and if he doesn't leave them alone, she'll paralyze him\send him into a coma-like state. (I think Ranma knows enough about human body to do that)
Not wanting to deal with a rebellious Servant(and Shinji is in the hospital anyway)he leaves them alone\gives them a trial period.
When Sakura, as usual, comes to Shirou's house and sees Saber, she tries to team up with him. (since Ranma can change back, temporarily *removing* a Servant, they have less reasons to fight each other (but I imagine that Saber won't like that Ranma intends to use Grail as well)).

[Muramasa]

And yet the initial reason Shinji was able to threaten her into handing over Rider was because she didn't want to fight Rin or Shirou. They've got issues to sort out, sure, but their relationship shouldn't be anywhere near homicidal at the beginning.

I got the impression that by nature Sakura just isn't a violent individual and strives to avoid conflict as much as possible (she gets enough of it at home anyway). As long as she has Shirou to herself, she was content to avoid Rin. Obviously that didn't happen. Shirou may go out of his way to sugarcoat a situation but Rin is a very blunt individual. She'd have Sakura believe her and Shirou were going out if it suited her goals. Rin brings out the worst in Sakura. If she was convinced Rin was trying to take Shirou away from her...

Uh yeah, things would get ugly really fast.

Oh and Comartemis, I'm still waiting for your okay in this. This is partly your idea too.

[Muramasa]

I suppose that Ranma will get summoned soon after the Jusenkyo Guide tells him how to change back.

Possible. You could also have it that Ranma is summoned while he's still in Rider's spring. That's about as close to a 'lock fic' as I'd have it. Not so much that Ranma's curse is locked. He just has no knowledge of his temporary cure.

The beginning could look like that.

After explanations from Sakura, Ranma agrees to be her guardian, so she could use Grail to remove her curse.
When Shinji comes to Sakura and Ranma learns how he treats her, she sends him into the hospital.
Later Ranma tells Zouken that with her help Sakura will definitely win the War (well, she does have quite an ego) and if he doesn't leave them alone, she'll paralyze him\send him into a coma-like state. (I think Ranma knows enough about human body to do that)
Not wanting to deal with a rebellious Servant(and Shinji is in the hospital anyway)he leaves them alone\gives them a trial period.
When Sakura, as usual, comes to Shirou's house and sees Saber, she tries to team up with him. (since Ranma can change back, temporarily *removing* a Servant, they have less reasons to fight each other (but I imagine that Saber won't like that Ranma intends to use Grail as well)).

Most of this sounds pretty good to me. Keep in mind that the Holy Grail already has the energy of 1 servant (As it wasn't used on Ranma). I like the idea of Shinji ending up paralyzed. Not only does it satisfy my desire to destroy him as much as possible, it also gives me another plot device. Remember Shirou still considers Shinji a friend this early on or at the very least he doesn't consider him an enemy. Shinji could be a very manipulative bastard and try to get Shirou to unknowingly fight Sakura and consequentially, Ranma. Hehe... things could spiral down hill really fast.



Anyway Saber would still be stuck in textbook servant mode. She'd do everything she could to put Shirou in an advantageous position in the war as long as it doesn't go against her honor. Unlike Shirou she has no qualms fighting a friend or even Shirou's friends. She changes her tune later on but at the beginning it'd be interesting to see where that goes.

[Kilich]

I wonder what Ranma will do when he learns about Caster's *Spell Breaker* dagger?
Will he miss that opportunity to cure the curse so he could protect Sakura better?

A suggestion.

If Rin's Archer will put killing Shirou above Rin's orders like in UBW and attacks him when Ranma is around, then one splash of cold water later, he would have to face both Rider and Saber. As i remember Saber injured him pretty badly when they fought one on one and with Rider's help, she could kill him before Rin called him back.

This way the story will be closer to Fate story arc then UBW&Heaven's Feel mix.
But i think i like UBW&Heaven's Feel mix more.


Oh, yes. Any comments on the prologue i posted in Outlines&Scenes? Will it fit as a beginning for the story? (Since nobody posted anything about it, neither here, nor there, I think that means that nothing is wrong with it, but... )

[Comartemis]

Fire away, 'masa. I've got projects of my own to work on so this baby's all yours. Have fun with it.

[Kilich]

Oh, an important question. If Sakura becomes Dark Sakura, will she be able to corrupt Ranma(heh, Dark Rider&Ranma) or since he's not a spritual entity in either form, he would be immune?