Temple of Ranma's Sailor Senshi Seifuku

This has its roots in memories of the "Cold Hands, Dark Heart" sourcebook for Big Eyes, Small Mouth, but was fertilised by some notes I made. In the anime, fighters seem to fit into three categories; Mooks, Heroes and Masters. Mooks are just that, the cannon-fodder grade characters, like the fighting club members from the hentai horde or the ice skaters Mikado & Azusa practise the Assault of 100 Foes with. The vast majority of martial artists we see fit into the Heroes grade; Akane, Tatewaki Kuno, the various Villain of the Week martial artists (Sentaro, Picolet, Sankichi, etc). These characters have power levels greater than any Mook, but still aren't the peak of the martial arts world- they are, however, the most numerous, and they can cause problems even for Masters in the right situation (most of the Hero-grade fights cause Ranma so much trouble because, while more powerful, he's got to fight by their rules).

Then we have the Masters, the rare few who seem to be the very pinnacle of martial arts prowess. Ranma, Ryoga, Genma (he can grow into a giant and knows/designed two incredibly powerful martial arts schools, as well as being able to spar equally with Ranma until he starts slacking off), Cologne, Happosai, Shampoo, debatably Mousse, possibly Ukyo and Kodachi in the anime (they can fight on equal levels with Shampoo), Ryu Kumon and the Musk + Saffron in the manga. Of these, only a small number fit into the 'normal' branch; Cologne and Happosai have 100 to 300 years of experience, Saffron is at least half magical creature, as is Herb, and Mint & Lime are the product of animal/human eugenics experiments. It's debatable whether Ryu belongs to this category, aor he simply seems so powerful due to his knowledge of the Yamasenken school (which makes him the rough equivalent of someone bringing a submachine gun to a fist fight). Before anyone brings up Taro or Hinako, those two stand outside these classification; Taro's power primarily comes from his monster form, while Hinako's ability is dependent upon her ability to use anything circular to leech out ki from her opponent(s).

It was after noting these facts that my mind started wondering: why are Heroes so much more common than Masters? And a good level of Heroes are actually adults- Sankichi Uragisi (the Battle Shogi guy), or Soun Tendo, for example. This curiosity started mixing with my recollections of the cliche "Ranma has some kind of special ancestry" and my disdain for the fact it's always Nodoka who provided the lineage, and (as mentioned before) my memories of the Cold Hands, Dark Heart sub-game, and thus this idea was born.

To finally start explaining myself, my idea roughly goes like this: Akane, Kuno and the other Hero-grade martial artists aren't weaker than Ranma out of laziness or such, they've just reached their maximum potential (more or less)- a Hero-rank fighter is the pinnacle of human capability. But then how come Ranma and the others I've named Masters are so much better? Well, I said that Heroes are the pinnacle of capability for humans. Ranma and Ryoga and the like are not human. The vague idea is that, unbeknownst to them, humans aren't alone in the world- walking indistinguishably amongst them are a number of breeds of "monster", supernatural creatures with their own distinct forms, powers and underground society. These beings hide their true nature through a combination of secrecy, transformation/illusion and the fact that, for the first decade or so of their life, they physically are humans. Up until their teens, 'monsters' are to all intents human, though they invariably develop physical and/or mental capabilities far beyond even the most powerful humans. At some point in their teens, their inhuman nature develops and they transform into their "adult stage"- though some, especially those with humans in their lineage, don't transform.

You can probably see where I'm going, but I'll spell it out. Ranma, through Genma, and the other "Master" teens I mentioned before, are all 'monsters' and it's time for their metamorphosis. The reason Genma has been trying so hard to get Ranma to marry Akane is because the Tendos don't know the Saotomes aren't human, so he wanted the "deal secured" before Ranma changed and thus risked scaring them off. So, we have Ranma going through a terrifying transformation, finding out he isn't human and really never was, the resultant effects this has on the Tendos, interactions with his friends-turned-fellows, and the Nerima 'monsters' efforts to try and come to terms with themselves and their new society- the latter of which brings more troubles and dangers to their already complex lives.

So, what do you folks think? There any possibility that this idea could be made to work?

It was after noting these facts that my mind started wondering: why are Heroes so much more common than Masters?

For the same reason that there are hundreds of people who play basketball than ones that play in the NBA, and only a handful will pose a challenge to Jordan.

You can, of course, make a fic where Michael Jordan/Ranma is actually a non-human, but the rationalization ("some people perform better than other because they're non-human") is weak. It takes away the hard work successful people put into it. Ranma is good, but he also worked on it. Saying that Ranma is good because he had a genetic advantage to begin with might cause of some emo moments, though.

Overall it sounds like the backstory/origin to a x-men comic where a mutie is ostracized. Throw in a plot point where ranma meets up with other enhanced non-humans, as well as humans who don't think they're too bad, maybe act heroic in a few instances to show he's a good guy after all, and you really do have a x-men arc.

Just to be clear, Ranma's prowess is not because he's an inhumanoid, its because he's literally sweated blood training. The genes give him potential and a far higher level of maximum capability, but they don't ensure he'll become superhumanly powerful- it's like humans can only reach level 5 but inhumans can reach level 7. There's a reason why Genma took him on the trip in the first place- no human will ever be able to be as good as he is, but Ranma is exceptional even for what he is because of all the hardship he's gone through.

SpaceKnight of Chaos wrote:Then we have the Masters, the rare few who seem to be the very pinnacle of martial arts prowess.

So the pinnacle is getting your ass handed to you by guys off the street, and using a week to come up with a counter to a usually ridiculously simple and highly limited system? So in other words the pinnacle is merely having enough dumb luck that you've encountered given limited systems before and they didn't insure you stayed down?

Even if the precept was true wouldn't the pinnacle then still be having figured out the various potential approaches and highly effective counters before putting one's life on the line? I really have to advise against using these kinds of absolutes. They might seem like they help on first blush, but they can very easily bite you in the butt when someone starts to see the inherent inconsistencies.

SpaceKnight of Chaos wrote:This curiosity started mixing with my recollections of the cliche "Ranma has some kind of special ancestry" and my disdain for the fact it's always Nodoka who provided the lineage

The obvious purpose for which would be to prevent Genma from having the same, which helps prevent having to invent contrivances for why a young pup just starting to figure things out wouldn't just get smacked down by the much older one when people want to swing that way. In your fic there's also the problem of why Genma and other "monsters" much older then their teens can hide, and Genma knows all this but can't arrange a "training trip" to teach Ranma to do the same. Plus the whole marry him quick thing doesn't hold up or work that well, as divorce as a result would tend to be the least of one's worries. A monster hunt and extermination is kind of historically more in line with the response to that kind of maneuver.

SpaceKnight of Chaos wrote:To finally start explaining myself, my idea roughly goes like this: Akane, Kuno and the other Hero-grade martial artists aren't weaker than Ranma out of laziness or such, they've just reached their maximum potential (more or less)- a Hero-rank fighter is the pinnacle of human capability.

Most people can't do one pushup, doing twenty is considered pretty good by most. In order to leave USN boot camp or enter OCS you need to be able to basically do 50, and to leave OCS 70. The record is actually in the thousands of push ups. There's levels of dedication and this precept of yours has to work against the fact Plum can handle Ryoga's umbrella just fine despite being half the size of Akane. Plus techniques that have made Kuno effective despite your precept of a well defined hierarchy of capability. Of course people tend to usually assume the bystanders that couldn't budge it period represent the "Limit of Human Potential" instead of guys that can't do even one push up, like the average lazy butt high school student most likely would be.

SpaceKnight of Chaos wrote:But then how come Ranma and the others I've named Masters are so much better? Well, I said that Heroes are the pinnacle of capability for humans. Ranma and Ryoga and the like are not human.

If you want to do this fine, but don't pretend it's canon. Otherwise we start have the "Secret Organization of Monsters" outnumbering the people you'd class as "human" in short order, while simultaneously just sitting around doing nothing about it. Nevermind when this kind of stuff goes crossover.

SpaceKnight of Chaos wrote:The vague idea is that, unbeknownst to them, humans aren't alone in the world- walking indistinguishably amongst them are a number of breeds of "monster", supernatural creatures with their own distinct forms, powers and underground society. These beings hide their true nature through a combination of secrecy, transformation/illusion and the fact that, for the first decade or so of their life, they physically are humans. Up until their teens, 'monsters' are to all intents human, though they invariably develop physical and/or mental capabilities far beyond even the most powerful humans. At some point in their teens, their inhuman nature develops and they transform into their "adult stage"- though some, especially those with humans in their lineage, don't transform.

You need to restructure that unless you want Ranma going active before he's even remotely close to encountering the Tendos. 16-17ish should be classed late teens early twenties unless you want to explain why all the members of the "Secret Organization of Monsters" are late bloomers. Furthermore you need a check on them in order for the whole precept that remain suppressed and underground to be anything other then contrivance. Plus why the forces that counter them would simply allow the younglings to create chaos in relative peace, as Ranma's canon fights with other "monsters" most certainly are not discrete.

Stability requires their to be a power balance between various organizations making it cost them more then they're willing to pay in order to act, which unless you simply want to go with contrivance cannot involve something even more powerful just benignly sitting on them.

You could create something along the lines of Return or a Type-Moon/Tsukihime/Fate blend with this, but a fic like this flies or falls due to the level of behind the scenes work insuring self consistency and otherwise. You create the universe right it can fly, you don't and it's just another "let's power up Ranma and play up the angst" fic.

My suggestion for balance would be to have governmental task forces equipped with very specialized gear for dealing with "monsters." Given the setting is Japan emphasis on non-lethals can be achieved, while just pointing out that it is Japan. Thus the governmental task force is strong against monsters, but due to being subordinate to politicians that want to maximize their tax revenue and otherwise, they largely have their hands tied behind their backs and interfere only with scaled force to threats to domestic tranquility and public security. This is to say just like everybody else they cannot use more force then absolutely necessary to resolve the situation, which also puts an emphasis on non-lethals monsters are highly vulnerable to. Thus we have the rock-paper-scissors setup that Type-Moon conceived but failed to actually implement.

This would mean the Department of Monster Affairs would generally encourage monsters to behave themselves and be discrete, or face the consequences of imprisonment or escalation. They rely upon specialized equipment of highly limited effect on non-monsters though, in addition to paperwork and governmental forces otherwise. They would also tend to want to discourage the monsters from becoming organized as like any decent sized group that could lead to them being a threat to stability. This is in general is along the lines of preventing motorists from organizing and taking action against the DMV though, not something along the lines of a Totalitarian governments maneuvers. You would also tend to have monsters in the Department of Monster Affairs if for no other reason then public relations.

You would have to add something more to this mix, because a stable setting is just a setting, and you can only go far with that. Things like the Return bait by use of having a slowly revealed plot, which encourages the reader to tune in order to gain the pieces of the puzzle enough to figure out what's really going on. Depending on your target length you may or may not wish to use that technique.

There's levels of dedication and this precept of yours has to work against the fact Plum can handle Ryoga's umbrella just fine despite being half the size of Akane.

I don't really feel like commenting on this post, but did it ever occur to you that Ryoga may have lost his original umbrella and is using a normal bamboo one by that point in the manga.

week to come up with a counter to a usually ridiculously simple and highly limited system?

When did that ever happen? Even to learn the styles and duplicate them while limiting himself to their styles it never took him a week. Tea ceremony - less than 24 hours, Rhythmic gymnastics - less than 24 hours. Umisenken - seeing it once. Ki Blast - mimicked first try just lacked power since didn't know of the mental component (purity of emotion). Are you also taking into account that he is fighting them in their own styles using the limitations and rules of the style - not fighting them in his own style (martial arts cheerleading for example limited himself to her style and way the competition was set up -primary goal cheer and support Kuno not defeat her in hand to hand). The goal is important as well - quite often his goal was not to knock out or defeat the opponent ex. Cologne battle - goal to take pill not beat up Cologne, second battle -goal to break watermelon not beat up Cologne, Chardon battle did not even hit Chardon once in battle.

One note is you don't have to standardize your 'monster capability' group. Nor do you have to give humans a potential limit. Instead it's easier to give them a weaker growth curve, humans need more experience and training to progress the same amount than the average 'monster', and the amount of experience and training they need to grow once they hit 'hero' stage, having surpassed 'mook' is exponentially higher than a 'monster' who continues to have a more linear growth path, where x-experience and training still equals y-level increase, just like it did back rising from levels one to two.

Ranma might be half crow Tengu (the Saotome school's favoring aerial techniques), from Genma's side, however, Genma has sealed most of Ranma's heritage with Tengu magic, even before Ranma's birth, to keep things quiet. Genma knows when this seal will approximately wear off, but not exactly, and that there were two times when it had the highest chance of wearing off, one, during the training trip, which was why he left home, and two, around the time Ranma turns 18 or so, and he wants Ranma to marry a Tendo in between that time, and go on a training trip again while waiting again for the transformation release. When the release happens and Ranma's inhuman heritage is unsealed, is supposed to be, according to the magic, Ranma has the capability to disguise himself as human, with a little training, and maintain that transformation. Genma hoped this would happen on the training trip and there would be no more worrying about it, but Ranma is a late bloomer, likely due to the mistake of training him in the neko-ken.

But just because Ranma might be a sealed crow Tengu, doesn't mean the others aren't other things entirely. Ryoga might have distant oni ancestry, to the point most of the visual signs, except slight fangs, are gone, but he still possesses inhuman strength and stamina potential, and his ki is easier to control with darker emotions, rather than lighter ones. Ryoga won't have any sort of awakening, but his power curve is still much better than a human. The Amazons could have had centuries of special breeding, they're still 100% human, but most of them are like top Olympic athletes in potential, and on top of that are probably ki sensitive, ki adepts, magic sensitive, shaman blooded, psychic, and/or have special magical bloodline abilities, and they've mastered all sorts of magical potions and drugs and acupuncture treatments in order to boost their abilities and bring them far past their normal potential with regular training. Happosai might have been initially incredibly weak, some weak, ugly midget, but his ingenuity and luck, combined with his lack of morals, allowed him to enhance his body with all sorts of forbidden magic and techniques, make a demonic pact or two, instill himself with some powers he wasn't born with, and simply corrupt his energies and body to the point he begins to transform into a demon for real. Ukyo's clan of ninja might have a whole different type of ancestry, they could have made a pact with a minor kami of food, as the greatest clan of ninja disguised and making most of their living off of cooking, and they have been mystically empowered based on their dedication to cooking by this god, allowing them to surpass in ki potential and physical potential and health, even the likes of Olympic athletes, with the degree of their power boost based on their cooking talents and dedication to their cooking and quality of food service. Ukyo and Ryoga don't even have to ever know of their ancestry, they won't ever transform or have to go through special treatments, but they still have something that sets them above regular humans, which some, like perhaps Happosai, Cologne, and Genma, might be able to sense, which they may or may not know about.

Limiting yourself to saying all the 'Master' level potential characters are possessors of the 'X-gene' and activate in their teens is a poor way to go about things. There can still be an organization of hidden monsters, or organizations, or organizations revolving around dealing with hidden monsters, without everyone who is one having the same sort of traits and methods of secrecy, or even all really being monsters, they could simply be empowered by such, or they could have transformations at entirely different stages of life.

me thinks it would later on the story be a good start for a xover with rosario vampire, if you plan to have only a few key characters "evolve" to monsters and they get a really bad reaction from the pure humans :d

antimatterenergy wrote:I don't really feel like commenting on this post, but did it ever occur to you that Ryoga may have lost his original umbrella and is using a normal bamboo one by that point in the manga.

You do love your excuses don't you? Yeah, he used it in the same arc, but hey you came up with something to cast possible doubt on one point even if there's no reason to believe so. You do realize you're scrapping the bottom of the barrel pretty hard here, right?

week to come up with a counter to a usually ridiculously simple and highly limited system?

antimatterenergy wrote:When did that ever happen? Even to learn the styles and duplicate them while limiting himself to their styles it never took him a week.

Really?

antimatterenergy wrote:Tea ceremony - less than 24 hours

Here we see he has an Instructor that makes a big difference, Anti. Plus he’s fighting a monkey here.

So let’s see Lesson 1: the sitting scoot. This involves a simple trick, which is actually of no relevance in the match.

The match goes on from here to here, a total of seven pages. In this the Monkey doesn’t really act that much unlike a monkey other then retaining the seated position throughout this. Ranma throws teaspoons, the monkey evades them and blinds Ranma with tea powder before smacking him with a pot. Then Ranma counters by shoving the pot back, which the monkey uses to neutralize Ranma’s follow up. When we see it again is looks like a normal cat fight, then we break again, and they’re out of the house but still brawling. Victory comes in the form of a Cleric of Takahashi casting Hold Monster long enough for Ranma to wind up, throw, and have her ladel hit the branch the monkey is hanging on, with yet more teaspoons used to nail the monkey down before the spell ends. You’ll note the monkey has no difficulty getting out of this a few seconds later, and was perfectly capable of dodging otherwise.

Note toward the end, the only guy who actually has any right to claiming mastership takes out Ranma in a matter of seconds, despite the fact he’s already used this trick on Ranma before.

In short Ranma has a hard time with a single unitary monkey and is pwned by the actual human in just about every way possible. Not exactly a stellar showing here, and given that repeated pwning and what was actually used was stuff he's shown able to do otherwise I think you're stretching to say he learned the style or much of anything else besides being able to maneuver while in a sitting position.

On this point I'll call it a draw. An ineffectual crash course in 24 hours that can hardly be called learning a style doesn't count. This would be the equivalent to me teaching a person to kick and punch somewhat well over an afternoon, and then you declaring he's learned an entire style. Only this is actually worse then that.

0:0

antimatterenergy wrote:Rhythmic gymnastics - less than 24 hours

Yeah, only that last little bit counts, the fact he was observing and effectively practicing with Akane for a week never, never happened. Excuse me, but if you're going drag this in here you're clearly hurting for anything to support your position.

The fight, if you can call it that, boiled down to basically throwing things at each other. Not exactly a radical concept. Even monkeys get the concept pretty quickly. No actual gymnastic performance or judging of that was involved so it's nonsensical to say Ranma learned Rhythmic gymnastics in the incident anyways. At most you can credit learning use of the ribbon, with which he already seemed reasonably familiar at the start of the week.

1 Me: 0 You

antimatterenergy wrote:Umisenken - seeing it once.

Now you're lying. He saw Genma do the ghosting trick once, but he had also already had aura suppression training back in the Hiryu Shoten Ha arc so it wasn't exactly a radical concept although he clearly tinkered with it a while. He saw the Yamasenken at least twice in action, and all the techniques other then the ghosting trick are direct, and highly limited I might add, counters to the Yamasenken moves. There were what 5 total moves each? And not a single one being particularly complex either, so most people could learn the basics in an afternoon. Heck the dojo owner guy whose Ryu's father literally did them as he was reading the bloody scroll, as per canon, not exactly the picture of complexity here. Plus all the counters he didn't get a big hint on were rather basic physical things. Plus he spent a week training on them.

Fight mainly involved avoiding being seen before dumping TON O' STUFF on Ryu that only worked as a finisher because Ryu was stupid enough to open it up instead of move. No real reason Ryu couldn't turn around and kick the crap out of him, having wised up to that, other then Ranma is allowed to and challengers are not by author fiat.

2 Me: 0 You

antimatterenergy wrote:Ki Blast - mimicked first try just lacked power since didn't know of the mental component (purity of emotion).

Any you're lying again. Ranma putters around for a few days, tries to steal Ryoga's scroll and and in a fit of melancholy after abject failure accidentally fires one off, proving the Miner who introduced the techniques statement that anyone could do it. His only feat of competence here was figuring out it was emotionally based as he tinkered with it for at least a day.

I'll call this one a draw.

Now for some of mine.

Picolet Chardin:
-Ranma infiltrates and basically spends a week to come up with the _brilliant_ idea of just cheating by throwing the food in the other guy's mouth. As if this wasn't bad enough, there is no moral or legitimacy dilemma related to cheating involved, and he isn't smart enough to take small portions quickly and discretely to prevent starvation and malnutrition issues that almost cost him the match.

Most people would have figured that out a few minutes after they realized what was going on if they were willing to cheat.

Breaking Point:
-Ranma basically observes the Breaking Point training and so knows exactly what he's up against other then the fact Genma fools him into thinking it works on people. Ranma spends a entire week focusing on speed training with Genma, and basically get kicked around the entire fight despite the fact a simple grab and lock would have neutralized things in about a minute.

Ranma only really won in that he figured out it didn't work on organics. Ryouga was still able to fight and use his trick, and Ranma still did not show himself able to effectively counter, but by author's fiat fight over. This is made all the more humiliating by the fact the underdog trip was used and Ryoga ran around like he was a knight with a lance instead of being stabby or anything about it.

Mariko:
-Trains for about a week and for all intents and purposes is an abject failure. Akane pulls off a victory, but it is hers, not his. Furthermore as Mariko establishes in her own maneuvers beating the crap out of the opponent yourself is completely and utterly legit.

Mousse, fight 1:
To my recollection there is a week break between the declaration of challenge and the actual fight here. He's now had months to come to terms with his female body, and has to face the reality he is effectively stuck in it for the moment. From the Amazons he has basically perfect intelligence.

Ranma's _brilliant_ plan involves dressing up in a similar manner and mocking his opponent in order to encourage a straight hand-to-hand fight. Mousse amazingly enough mostly complies with this. However Ranma gets exposed butt naked in the process, and while you might argue a lack of modesty this beyond any reasonable doubt exposes Ranma's secret. That is Epic Failure material. If that's not bad enough Ranma couldn't win anyway, because his legs are too short and he has nothing else up his sleeve. So the author in the form of Dr. Tofu steps in and hits a temporary pressure point that allows Ranma to once again go male and thus have longer legs then Mousse allowing Ranma to achieve "victory" by achieving 1 hit verse the several he took. But author fiat comes in and so the fight is over.

The thing is that as the Grandfather point only works once and Mousse is not meaningfully injured, there is absolutely nothing at this point stopping Mousse from beating Ranma to a pulp. So Ranma manages the no small feat of having not one, but two Epic Failures for this fight.

Kuno, early fight:
While Ranma "wins" both he shows absolutely no counter for Kunos attacks, which are clearly shown as being able to hit him and give him issues. Instead by author's fiat Kuno just stands there and basically allows himself to get hit. Not exactly a stellar performance here.

Hiryu Shoten Ha:
Despite the fact the actual training took three days, the actual time between fight 1 and 2 can be called a week. In this arc it is made rather clear that Ranma, even though he retains all his other abilities, cannot fight anyone else without use of his strength. For a "martial artist" that's pretty pathetic.

Anyway Cologne takes pity on him and teaches him the Hiryu Shoten Ha with the help of various members of the cast. Suppressing his aura, moving in a spiral, and delivering an uppercut are the mechanics of the move. Cologne apparently thinks so little of Ranma's intelligence she is worried he will just stop after completing the spiral having no clue despite having already been shown the technique and thus knowing it is a tornado and possibly even seeing her uppercut her little fist. Her fears prove unfounded, but talk about a vote of no confidence.

Ranma now having exactly one move, that requires use of one plan is stymied by the fact Happosai just isn't playing along, and here comes in the problem. Happosai has already seen this move, so he knows exactly what it is, and he shows more or less right off the bat he is perfectly capable of countering it by just getting out of the center. So author fiat basically has to come in with a sledge hammer to force Happosai to play along with staying in the spiral.

As if that's not bad enough the entire exercise is basically both pointless and a failure. Happosai had unearthed the chart so a simple coordinated distraction and snatch and grab would have gotten them the chart. A trick any slightly devious person should have figured out in about a minute when faced with the scenario that led to the fight. As is the chart by all rights should have been and was thought lost thanks to Ranma's abject stupidity, but author's fiat insures that the magic reset button is hitable so it isn't and Ranma's back to normal by the end of this arc.

(tangential) Herb Arc:
As if all this isn't bad enough the author herself is basically in on it and even emphasizes Ranma as not being all that great. As shown by Ryouga and Mousse's comments about learning from Ranma before pulling the "Look a Three-Headed Monkey" trick and sucker punching Herb's underlings.

(tangential) Dojo Destroyer:
Previously claymade and I believe you decided to harp on the Dojo Destroyer incident. You chose to go with Akane's interpretation of events, so this is your well roasted crow.

The Dojo Destroyer arc happens at the end of Volume 6, while the Amigurken Arc completed itself in Volume 5. So just one volume ago Ranma finished up basically a months worth of training centering around a technique involving grabbing things at high speed.

Ranma's goal at this point of the Dojo Destroyer arc is to get his hands on a packet of Instant Drowned Spring of Man, of which Shampoo has slapped 8 packets on the Dojo Destroyer on top of the guys uniform and on his forehead. Note that Ranma has no problem closing with this guy.

What the Akane interpretation says is that Ranma is so inflexible and preprogrammed that he proceeded to nail all the vital points with his foot, despite knowing the packets were there and would probably not take such too well even without the explosives and having absolutely no reason to do so. Especially as he just spent a month training to snatch things quickly. Plus these are a very different pattern from the 7 strikes used on Kuno.

To add insult to injury they didn't even keep the Dojo Destroyer down for more then a couple of minutes. How good can Ranma's use of points of vulnerability (if we circular logic perfect hits like you guys wanted) be if he has to hit 7-8 of them and your opponent is either sent to the hospital in the case of Kuno or just gets up unharmed a minute later as with the Dojo Destroyer especially if you have no real follow up?

The fact they're basically only used twice by Takahashi to try to write herself out of a corner and otherwise not really seen again.

Watermelon Race:
-While not a subject I would bother with you chose to make a big deal out of a guy already trained in such things and dodging being at some sort of disadvantage while being able to freestyle with doing so. Uh-huh. The fact you think hitting a large object held in a person's hand is a big deviation from his normal style goes further then I do. So fine, I obviously don't hold his style's adaptability in as utter contempt as you do given you think hitting a bloody watermelon in a person's hand with a bloody stick is a radical deviation from the norm of his style enough to give him serious issues.

Plus defining his style as only worth beating on people? In short you're calling him a brawler. You don't comprehend that there's not only entire families of techniques but more then one family of techniques for neutralizing a person without really harming them in any way, do you?

Meanwhile unlike the above I can credit hordes, hordes mind you, of mecha operators figuring out complex operation of mecha and various technology that would tend to be hard to use within a few minutes. Some reason you didn't try to make said case in the topic that was basically created for that purpose instead of going off topic here?