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For submitting and talking about story ideas. Idea submissions must be at least five paragraphs long, and include plot points, summaries of which characters are involved, and, for fanfiction, how it differs from canon. Both original and fanfiction ideas welcome. Though original works should have more development. Replying posts must give actual commentary, no "GREAT IDEA" or "THIS SUCKS".

Postby GenocideHeart » Mon Sep 11, 2006 10:51 am

WarGiver wrote:Spring of drowned Akane wasn't the only insidence of this occuring (a Spring giving exact form)
The Monkey that Herb threw into the girl spring came out identical to girl-ranma (Herb said so).
As to Kos-mos... I think the spring would cause the receiver to be an organic kos-mos, on the Asura example- Statue goes in, biological Asura comes out.
perhaps an organic Kos-Mos that can then 'summon' her *cough* "armor" *cough* and weapons.

That wouldn't work. KOS MOS's weapons and armor are not only integrated in her body, but require an energy source that's internal to her and, as Shion mentioned, hazardous for normal human beings.
An organic KOS MOS would just look like KOS MOS; but have absolutely none of her abilities.
On a side note, this reminded me of a Magic: the Gathering cross idea that I once had, where the Jusenkyou grounds were originally created when a being made entirely of magic shaped into a body drowned in the first spring. That being happening to be Akroma, the Angel of Wrath. :p
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Postby WG_Writer » Tue Sep 12, 2006 6:09 am

GenocideHeart wrote:That wouldn't work. KOS MOS's weapons and armor are not only integrated in her body, but require an energy source that's internal to her and, as Shion mentioned, hazardous for normal human beings.
An organic KOS MOS would just look like KOS MOS; but have absolutely none of her abilities.

Cyborg then, besides don't most fics portray Ranma as being a rediculas Ki battery?
The reason I am pushing this, although you can feel free to ignore it, is that The only example of a non-living thing drowning in jusenkyo results in a "living curse" (Asura). You could claim that the Cyborg parts are a result of the curse protecting life and granting them to interface with the armor and weapons.
Storm trooper effect works against good guys as well.
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Postby Pale Wolf » Tue Sep 12, 2006 10:09 am

Cyborg then, besides don't most fics portray Ranma as being a rediculas Ki battery?

Maybe, but that portrayal is largely out of line with canon.
Whenever Ranma's gone into a ki-based fight, he was on the short end of the stick. Ryouga? Perfect Shi Shi Hokodan creating dozen-meter craters versus the rather dinky Mouko Takabisha? Saffron? Wider variety of techniques and packing more power, although whether it's ki or not is potentially debatable. Herb? ... Right, don't even get me started on this.
The fact that he tends to win anyway even when he's that outgunned is what's interesting.
Besides which, I personally kind of doubt that human ki levels are up to the kind of crazy things KOS-MOS pulls, or at least not Ranma ki levels. Even assuming it was a compatible energy type.
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Postby GenocideHeart » Tue Sep 12, 2006 3:48 pm

Pale Wolf wrote:Besides which, I personally kind of doubt that human ki levels are up to the kind of crazy things KOS-MOS pulls, or at least not Ranma ki levels. Even assuming it was a compatible energy type.

Damn right. I mean, Third Armament? Didn't it, you know... wipe out a GALAXY?
"When the Planessss burnnnn and all life is torchesss, then Ignusss ssshall at lassst... be at peace..."
--Ignus, Planescape: Torment
"Know that for all who betray justice, I am their fate. And fate carries an executioner's axe."
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Postby Pale Wolf » Tue Sep 12, 2006 4:02 pm

Although, to contradict my own point...
We also don't know if the situation's the other way around. We don't know how much power ki could have if converted into a KOS-MOS-suitable form.
That would depend on how you choose to define ki, really. Energy of the body? Then there's really no way it'd be that level.
Energy of the spirit? The spirit hasn't been scientifically quantified, so you can say it packs more harnessable power than antimatter and technically get away with it.
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Postby Lenneth » Wed Sep 13, 2006 12:08 am

Ok, Ok, ok, I think everyone is getting a bit overboard here, this is a fanfic, not a university Thesis.
Not to mention the fact that Jusenkyo is described as "Magic", and that the Sailor Scouts use "Magic".
Some things you just don't need to give a lesson in Quantum Physics to explain to the reader how it works when 90+% of them wont care. :roll:
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Postby GenocideHeart » Wed Sep 13, 2006 2:10 am

Lenneth wrote:Ok, Ok, ok, I think everyone is getting a bit overboard here, this is a fanfic, not a university Thesis.
Not to mention the fact that Jusenkyo is described as "Magic", and that the Sailor Scouts use "Magic".
Some things you just don't need to give a lesson in Quantum Physics to explain to the reader how it works when 90+% of them wont care. :roll:

Except you're trying to mix magic and technology. They never mixed well, if at all. Why do you think objects made of iron/steel are supposedly the bane of magical creatures?
"When the Planessss burnnnn and all life is torchesss, then Ignusss ssshall at lassst... be at peace..."
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Postby Pale Wolf » Wed Sep 13, 2006 2:39 am

Ok, Ok, ok, I think everyone is getting a bit overboard here, this is a fanfic, not a university Thesis.

That just means it's more fun to dissect and perfect. Not that it shouldn't be done.
Some things you just don't need to give a lesson in Quantum Physics to explain to the reader how it works when 90+% of them wont care.

Iceberg theory.
Even if you never say it, even if readers won't care, it is your duty as writer to completely understand everything in the universe of your fanfic. In fact, if you construct a reasonable physics system, ie the properties of magic, you can do far more interesting things.
Okay, since I'm feeling nice, I'll give you a system of magic and Jusenkyo that lets you get away from the assumption of getting Ranma turned into a biological KOS-MOS.
Jusenkyo templates a being's 'true form' when they drown. The inner nature of whatever 'drowned' there. Thus, the Asura statue was a representative, and the ki on the object was what the spring absorbed - the meaning attached to it. So when someone falls in the spring, they turn into what's depicted by the statue, rather than the statue itself.
Now to carry this on to KOS-MOS. You could either say A: she represents nothing, so her true form is exactly what's there, or B: the ki on her came from those such as Shion who see her as exactly what she is, producing the same result.
B provides some interesting other options, if you want to turn Ranma into a not-quite-KOS-MOS. Ie. if you decide what Shion sees KOS-MOS as, and it's not quite what's there (as far as I've played the games, haven't got further than partway through Ep 1, it seems almost like a daughter), you can turn Ranma into someone else's view of KOS-MOS (try to avoid picking Cherenkov for that if you do, though 8) Unless you want a Death Machine Ranma).
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Postby Lenneth » Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:03 am

Ok I get the point you are making now.
Here's what I've had planned the curse for almost a Month now, I will try to avoid Spoilers wherever possible.
(Please note I have only watched a friend play through a 3 Xenosaga games once so I might get something wrong about that part, but with Xenogears I own and have completed that game more than 10 times;) )
As far as how exactly the curse will effect Ranma is quite similar to the fic I posted a link to earlier, but with a few twists.
The curse will turn Ranma into a Cyborg of sorts (not a typical Cyborg expected from a Human and Android merge, but one having only the good traits of both [hard to explain]) with the Same Appearance (See Pic) and a near Identical voice to Kos-Mos Version 4 from the Latter Half of Xenosaga 3, also Ranma's being turned into a Cyborg will be Carried over to his male form as well by Jusenkyo to prevent the change from killing him.
(before you ask, No this is not a "Ranma the All Powerful" fic but he certainly will have some sizeable improvements)
FIC SPOILER WARNING
(Highlight to Read)
This is only a very minor spoiler, but a spoiler just the same.
Additionally, a majority but not all of Kos-Mos's Memory's and consciousness (Not All of them though) will be "Inherited" in a way by Ranma at one point, also before Kos-Mos ends up in Jusenkyo, she will have been Modified/Upgraded somewhat by something to do with the ending of Xenosaga 3 (you will know what I mean If you have seen it and have also completed Xenogears) but this part will most likely not be revealed until the 2nd chapter.

END SPOILER
I am also considering having the Curse "Temporarily Locked" but I am undecided if I will do that.
I Hope this explains my Intentions better, if it doesn't just say so and i will try to add more as spoiler free as possible. 8)
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Postby Pale Wolf » Thu Sep 14, 2006 6:14 am

(not a typical Cyborg expected from a Human and Android merge, but one having only the good traits of both [hard to explain])

Try :P
also Ranma's being turned into a Cyborg will be Carried over to his male form as well by Jusenkyo to prevent the change from killing him.

It's up to you of course, but...
Jusenkyo is transformation magic. Why would being a cyborg kill him if everything changes simultaneously? Really, if cyborg parts in either form would kill or hurt him upon transformation, then having the parts in both forms won't change that.
Here's what I'm leading up to: I think it'd be better if you kept the KOS-MOS-ification (oh god, bad fic idea, damn you Ozz for those titles...) to just the female form. Make the female form powered up while the male is still comparatively weak. It lets you screw around with Ranma better.
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Postby Lenneth » Fri Sep 15, 2006 12:58 am

Hm, Might work, I'll give it some thought thanks for the suggestion.
& the good traits of both sides of human & android I meant is senses such as emotions, smell, touch, but leaving out pain, injury's that can permanently cripple, death, etc etc.
thats about the best way I can describe it at the moment (been putting in a lot of overtime at work so I'm a bit worn out)
On the both forms being turned into cyborgs part you yourself said that science and magic don't mix very well, so I am using that as a compromise/agreement the two came to to make the change possible.
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Postby Pale Wolf » Fri Sep 15, 2006 1:28 am

& the good traits of both sides of human & android I meant is senses such as emotions, smell, touch, but leaving out pain, injury's that can permanently cripple, death, etc etc.

Ah, so Ranma's basically a machine that can feel emotions and the senses of smell and touch?
Well... the emotions seem likely to fit in whether Ranma turns cyborg or not - it's a simple case of data that can't be reliably put into logical, efficient programming terms. Since Ranma's already got that data, even being converted to completely mechanical will retain the capability for emotion. However, this will produce a weakness - tactical planning will not be able to ignore emotion and come to the most logical result, unless you segregate rationality and emotion into two separate data sectors. In other words, have Ranma come to KOS-MOS style rational, perfect solutions, and then have the emotional reaction that throws it out and back for processing... Rinse, repeat, until you get a plan that doesn't horrify Ranma at first glance. I mean, turning Ranma into a robot and then having her be just the same is boring. Make some use of it!
Smell and touch of course are easy, and cutting out pain just requires the stimula to be rated before it gets to the brain and either cut out, muted, or let through. In fact, I would say make sure Ranma feels pain - a lack of ability to feel negative stimuli leads to really dumb risks - just mute it.
On the both forms being turned into cyborgs part you yourself said that science and magic don't mix very well, so I am using that as a compromise/agreement the two came to to make the change possible.

Nope, that was GenocideHeart.
I actually try and define magic in a much more scientific sense, rather than going with the 'magic lets you do anything' trope. In fact when I mix magic and technology, the results are scarily good.
But if you say that magic breaks the rules of science, then you can really feel free to make Ranma a full mechanical.
There is no problem that cannot be solved through the proper application of immense levels of firepower.

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<Stratagemini> My Titanium Anus Armour will repel all challengers!

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Postby Lenneth » Fri Sep 15, 2006 3:15 am

Pale Wolf wrote:Ah, so Ranma's basically a machine that can feel emotions and the senses of smell and touch?

Ah, Not Exactly, more of a Human/Machine hybrid.
You will see what I mean when I get a first beta posted in C&C.
(providing you don't mind a few Xenosaga 3 Spoillers)
Pale Wolf wrote:Nope, that was GenocideHeart.

Ah, Sorry my mistake (probably a bit to tired)
signing off for today.
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Postby GenocideHeart » Fri Sep 15, 2006 8:30 am

Um, at this point, wouldn't it be better to use Emeralda from Xenogears for this? She's a technorganic being, unlike KOS MOS, which makes the transition in a cursed spring a lot less messy and a lot more believable.
And for the record, Xenosaga has officially been split off from Xenogears's storyline, so any and all things they may have had in common have been retconned by Namco...
"When the Planessss burnnnn and all life is torchesss, then Ignusss ssshall at lassst... be at peace..."
--Ignus, Planescape: Torment
"Know that for all who betray justice, I am their fate. And fate carries an executioner's axe."
--Vhailor, Planescape: Torment
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Postby Climhazard » Fri Sep 15, 2006 4:27 pm

Um, at this point, wouldn't it be better to use Emeralda from Xenogears for this? She's a technorganic being, unlike KOS MOS, which makes the transition in a cursed spring a lot less messy and a lot more believable.

IMO Emeralda as much "mechanical" as KOS-MOS. She, after all, just a advanced nanomachine colony.
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