Here's a thought for a Naruto fic...

[Moshulel]

My opinion is Kage Bunshin is there on the scroll of forbidden seals to distract idiots like Naruto who might steal the scroll from the more valuable contents later on in it. Naruto doesn't even look at the next technique, but spends all afternoon learning Kage Bunshin no jutsu until Iruka finds him. Normally someone who finds the scroll wouldn't have nearly as much chakra as him, and they might burn themselves out or even die from chakra exhaustion trying to learn it. It's not really a kinjutsu, it's a distraction, in more ways than one.

Right.... then again the last chapter can be ignored no? Just the title of chapter 315 should point out something to you...

Id have to agree that the scroll he stole is either a fake (doesnt actually contain forbiden jutsu) or the dangerous ones are encoded or hidden on it somehow. Im leaning to the theory that the techniques on the scroll may have been forbiden (dangerous to use/learn) but more to the unexperienced than anything else. Like what was said before it could of just been a fake to trick a would be theif into thinking they got the right one. After all, something as dangerous as the Forbiden Techniques would be under a lot more security than a novice theif should be able to break thrue even on a good day. I would think that the actual scroll's location would be known by only a small handfull of people to keep it hidden from spies. Really, Naruto should be thankfull that it didnt blow up when he opened it.

That's why the third was woirried about what Naruto will read in the scroll.... ya because it was just a fake.

Also Kinjutsu are supposed to be sealed techniques. Notice how Orochimaru (Whose life goal it is to learn EVERY jutsu) Had no knowledge of the fourth's jutsu, yet many ninja are familier with KB. That fact alone means it is jounin level and not kinjutsu level. Additionaly the main reason it is jounin level is because of the high chakra consumption the technique needs to work.

Excuse me? The Fourth invented it and used it as a last resort and we can be fairly certain that only KAGES have acces to it. It's the strongest tehnique outthere what do you expect? To have anyone knowing about it?
Do you actually see Sarutobi teaching this jutsu to anyone?

To use numerical equivalents (Since we've all agreed Naruto is already starting to turn into DBZ anyway) lets say Kakashi has about 5000 chakra. Naruto would have 10000. Now lets say to use a mid level katon jutsu requires a minimum of 500 chakra. If Kakashi where to make 11 KB's he wouldn't be able to do it. However even if he made 50 Mizu Bunshins they all would have the power to use that jutsu. Naruto however has such an inordinate amount of chakra that he doesn't need to worry about not having enough per clone to use a jutsu (Not that he knows all that many). IE: from a logical perspective the fixed 1/10 of the mizu bunshin can be better then the endlessly dividing chakra of the KB for most people.

Again we have no idea how much chakra a mizu bunshin consums it might consume a lot more than just 1/10 of the chakra used for a KB or otherwise Zabuza would have used it more wouldn't he? And why do Sarutobi/Itachi and Kakashi use KB when the situation is thick and not Mizu Bunshin? That tehnqueu is't effective compared to the KB not even from a cost point of view.
Also your logic is quite skewed. A katon jutsu using 500 can be usaed by 50 mizu bunshins? Leading to 25000 chakra usage? Impressive feat... when Kakashi has just 5000 chakra,.

Technically the rasengan is a lump of chakra, albeit one spinning at high speeds. And I am saying that Kage Bunshin is jounin level. However as has been noted in the manga, the main reason for this is the inordinate amount of chakra needed to use the technique effectively.

Not going to comment here... what next the Rasengan can be learned by all ninja above genin level?

However even with his chakra all fixed, I doubt he would have gotten it on his first try. Sakura would almost definatly have mastered it immediatly considering that she was able to do the tree walking technique, almost casually on her first try. She invested no great effort to learn it. Additionaly Sasuke managed to learn the water walking technique while he was busy ripping off Lee's speed and the chidori. IE: It probably isn't as hard as learning to apply the principle in the first stage

One little word: Sharingan? the greatest shortcut out there? Ignoring that are you?
Also the amount of time Naruto spends to master water walking which IS harder than tree walking is smaller proportionally to the amount the time Sakura needed to master tree walking. If we take all factors into account it took him a lot less time that it took Sakura to learn tree walking.

[Shadell]

That's why the third was woirried about what Naruto will read in the scroll.... ya because it was just a fake.

The third was worried... But yet no really powerful ninja where sent out after Naruto. And Sarutobi didn't do anything himself aside from tell a few generic ninja to go after Naruto. (Like say Kakashi with his very good tracking dogs). Also if it was really dangerous he wouldn't have let himself be incapacitated by Sexy no jutsu.
However I find the most logical answer regarding the scroll is that Kishimoto had no idea Naruto would go on this long, and when it started KB was going to be one of the greatest most powerful techniques.
Lastly, I find the fact that Naruto didn't think to copy the scroll down for later as quite stupid. Even if it is fake, KB was a great jutsu and it was only the first one there.

Excuse me? The Fourth invented it and used it as a last resort and we can be fairly certain that only KAGES have acces to it. It's the strongest tehnique outthere what do you expect? To have anyone knowing about it?
Do you actually see Sarutobi teaching this jutsu to anyone?

Orochimaru=Otokage. Can't see Sartuobi teaching it. Additionaly that jutsu is what a kinjutsu is is what a kinjutsu is. A really high level jutsu with dangerous risks to using it. The only other Kinjutsu we've seen revived two dead Kage's as completely loyal summons, create a seal that draws out one's chakra, increasing their ability incredibly, or transfer's Orochimaru's soul to another body. Frankly against those KB doesn't measure up.

Again we have no idea how much chakra a mizu bunshin consums it might consume a lot more than just 1/10 of the chakra used for a KB or otherwise Zabuza would have used it more wouldn't he? And why do Sarutobi/Itachi and Kakashi use KB when the situation is thick and not Mizu Bunshin? That tehnqueu is't effective compared to the KB not even from a cost point of view.
Also your logic is quite skewed. A katon jutsu using 500 can be usaed by 50 mizu bunshins? Leading to 25000 chakra usage? Impressive feat... when Kakashi has just 5000 chakra.
Point, however as we have no clue exactly how much chakra the mizu-bunshin's hold or exactly how they are created. (Remember Zabuza said it had 1/10th his power. However no were has it been confirmed that all mizu-bunshin's have 1/10 the users power.)
Also the mizu bunshin does not divide the user's power. Even 2 KB create two people with 50% chakra. With most low level people neither will be able to use powerful jutsu. However MB doesn't take away half the user's potential chakra just for one usage.

Not going to comment here... what next the Rasengan can be learned by all ninja above genin level?

No, most Ninja's can't externalize a lump of chakra and make it spin. It is incredibly hard to learn and really awesome. That doesn't change the fact that it is basically a spinning ball of chakra.

One little word: Sharingan? the greatest shortcut out there? Ignoring that are you?

Sharingan does not grant perfect chakra control, it shows them how a technique works. If Sasuke sees a jutsu he sees how to focus his chakra to use it. If Sasuke sees Lee's taijutsu he sees how Lee moves his body to gain that speed and attack. If Sasuke sees a strongman lifting 300ibs, it doesn't teach him to lift weights. Sasuke could learn the movements for embroidery from using the sharingan. Without good enough reflexes and hand control he would be unable to use them effectively. Thus while it could show Sasuke exactly how to use the water walking technique, but frankly the technique is a simple principle that he already knew. Thus in that situation sharingan should equal useless.

Also the amount of time Naruto spends to master water walking which IS harder than tree walking is smaller proportionally to the amount the time Sakura needed to master tree walking. If we take all factors into account it took him a lot less time that it took Sakura to learn tree walking.

No it isn't... Sakura learned tree walking instantly. Therefore ANY amount of time aside from being able to do it on the first try isn't smaller proportionaly, rather proportionaly it is infinitly larger. Also you do realize that your argument is saying that Naruto has more abillity with chakra control then Sakura.

[GenocideHeart]

Actually, Naruto was struggling with waterwalking only because of the 5-part seal on his belly. As soon as Jiraiya removed it, he could walk on water PERFECTLY, assuming the erosennin didn't distract him.
So he also learned hat exercise instantly. He was only struggling when handicapped. I'd like to see Sakura do the treeclimbing with a seal screwing COMPLETELY up her chakra flow...
Also... Orochimaru knowing that sealing technique? HAHAHAHAHA. One, he's a wanted S-Class missing nin of teh Leaf, so they wouldn't teach it to him to bgin with.
Two, his village was stated to have just formed.
Three, he's not a Kage recognized by the nations. There's five Kages, Oro just self proclaimed himself Otokage. Not enough to share any secret with him.
Four, even if he was legitimate, IT'S A HIDDEN VILLAGE OF NINJA. They protect their secrets and don't share them. Same reason why no one outside Konoha knows much about the Byakugan, and the Hidden Cloud was willing to risk to kidnap Hinata. Very powerful jutsu like that are deemed village secrets, and not shared. Stealing is the only option.

[Shadell]

Actually, Naruto was struggling with waterwalking only because of the 5-part seal on his belly. As soon as Jiraiya removed it, he could walk on water PERFECTLY, assuming the erosennin didn't distract him.
So he also learned hat exercise instantly. He was only struggling when handicapped. I'd like to see Sakura do the treeclimbing with a seal screwing COMPLETELY up her chakra flow...

Not true. As has been noted before he improved greatly when sealed. Jiraiya only removed the seal when he almost had the technique down, IE: several hours after he started.
For a mathmatical model assume you need 60 in chakra control to walk on water. Naruto's chakra control equals 50. The seal subtracts 10 so it is at 40. Through training Naruto improves it up to 50 with the seal. Once the seal is removed it is at 60. IE: 50=/ enough to water walk. WIth the seal he does even worse, however he improves enough while under the seal to do it once the seal is removed.
And to say it completely screwed up his chakra flow is wrong. If that where the case he would be unable to use any jutsu. However he used several between the time it was place on him and the time he mastered water walking.

Also... Orochimaru knowing that sealing technique? HAHAHAHAHA. One, he's a wanted S-Class missing nin of teh Leaf, so they wouldn't teach it to him to bgin with.
Two, his village was stated to have just formed.
Three, he's not a Kage recognized by the nations. There's five Kages, Oro just self proclaimed himself Otokage. Not enough to share any secret with him.

Notice how sound was allowed to participate in the chuunin exams. And no jounin thought a plan to ally sound with sand was far-fetched enough to do serious investigations? That is clearly done because sound is not a real hidden village.

Which is why sand didn't think allying with Sound was suspicious and they were allowed to participate in the chunin exam.

Four, even if he was legitimate, IT'S A HIDDEN VILLAGE OF NINJA. They protect their secrets and don't share them. Same reason why no one outside Konoha knows much about the Byakugan, and the Hidden Cloud was willing to risk to kidnap Hinata. Very powerful jutsu like that are deemed village secrets, and not shared. Stealing is the only option.

And lastly, I only even poitned out that Oro was a kage because the last poster said only a kage would know about the technique. It's natural for an argument to sound flawed out of context.

[GenocideHeart]

Sigh. First of all, ypou don't understand how the five part seal worked.
It basically interfered with teh Fourth's seal, leaving Naruto with ONLY his own chakra reserves, and an even WORSE than usual control. The only reason why he was able to pull off all the crap he did was because Naruto's NATURAL, non-Kyuubi chakra reserves are absolutely ungodly, so he can afford to waste enormous amounts of chakra.
But waterwalking wasn't about how much chakra he had, it was about precise control. Too little, he'd sink. Too much, he'd lose balance.
With the 5 part seal, his control was even worse than usual. As soon as Jiraiya removed it, he got it right away.
Furthermore, he had time for at most 4/5 attempts before Ebisu was put out of commission by Jiraiya, and after that, he tried once more and Jiraiya immediately spotted the seal, and realized it was what was tampering with his control.
He then removed it and lo and behold, Naruto effortlessly walked on water. Why? because HIS CONTROL HAD BEEN RESTORED.
Naruto also learned a jutsu that requires far more control than Sakura's little trick - which BTW, he ALREADY KNOWS, even if he may not realize it.
When did he use it?
Neji, Chuunin Finals.
Watch the last punch before Naruto KOd him, the one Neji countered with a Kaiten. Notice how Naruto had a large aura around his fist just a second before impact, while before, the aura was thin and all around his body. In that moment, he passed a large amount of chakra in his fist, and that's what blew Neji away when he Kaiten'd it - it had so much power behind it, even the Kaiten couldn't redirect all of teh impact.
The basic of that tech is the same as what Sakura uses, only on a far larger scale.
Basically, Kishimoto has dropped plenty of hints all over the manga that Naruto's capabilities actually exceed those of both his teammates in ALL CATEGORIES. It's only a lack of proper training that held him back, as all the teachers but Iruka hated him, and for the rest of the time, he was too busy pranking to learn much besides stealth and run (hiding from angry mobs).

[Moshulel]

Point, however as we have no clue exactly how much chakra the mizu-bunshin's hold or exactly how they are created. (Remember Zabuza said it had 1/10th his power. However no were has it been confirmed that all mizu-bunshin's have 1/10 the users power.)

So you are claiming Zabuza doesn't know his stuff? I dunno maybe a jounin would know a few detailes about the jutsu he uses because dunno not knowing them could lead to DEATH?

Sharingan does not grant perfect chakra control, it shows them how a technique works. If Sasuke sees a jutsu he sees how to focus his chakra to use it. If Sasuke sees Lee's taijutsu he sees how Lee moves his body to gain that speed and attack. If Sasuke sees a strongman lifting 300ibs, it doesn't teach him to lift weights. Sasuke could learn the movements for embroidery from using the sharingan. Without good enough reflexes and hand control he would be unable to use them effectively. Thus while it could show Sasuke exactly how to use the water walking technique, but frankly the technique is a simple principle that he already knew. Thus in that situation sharingan should equal useless.

As much as i would want you to be right here you aren't, you should keep in mind that Lee's muscles are much more developed than those of Sasuke yet the Mary Suegan user copies his speed exactly. It doesn't show him how a tehnique works, it copies it. Not to mention Kishi really screwed up here, at first he said the Mary Suegan casn copy only hand seal tehniques but sasuke manages to copy Lee's taijutsu... bleah...

The third was worried... But yet no really powerful ninja where sent out after Naruto. And Sarutobi didn't do anything himself aside from tell a few generic ninja to go after Naruto. (Like say Kakashi with his very good tracking dogs). Also if it was really dangerous he wouldn't have let himself be incapacitated by Sexy no jutsu.
However I find the most logical answer regarding the scroll is that Kishimoto had no idea Naruto would go on this long, and when it started KB was going to be one of the greatest most powerful techniques.
Lastly, I find the fact that Naruto didn't think to copy the scroll down for later as quite stupid. Even if it is fake, KB was a great jutsu and it was only the first one there

Now this is getting annoying, for the last time:
THE SCROLL IS NOT FAKE!
Do you think the leaf would place a tehnique like the Kage Bunshin in a fake scroll? Are they actually that idiotic to place a tehnique like that in a decoy?
Why would all that fuss be caused? Why is the whole village in alert?
Also has it occured to you that maybe those were the Ninja's available at that moment? Missions don't do themselves you know.
I would also take a closer look at the nins dispatched after Naruto before posting.
And Kage Bunshin is just the first on the list...

Orochimaru=Otokage. Can't see Sartuobi teaching it. Additionaly that jutsu is what a kinjutsu is is what a kinjutsu is. A really high level jutsu with dangerous risks to using it. The only other Kinjutsu we've seen revived two dead Kage's as completely loyal summons, create a seal that draws out one's chakra, increasing their ability incredibly, or transfer's Orochimaru's soul to another body. Frankly against those KB doesn't measure up.

1) Oro isn't a Kage. There are only 5 kages if you didn't read the manga.
2) You expect the leaqf to share a kinjutsu that can seal the Kyuubi to other villages? Ya right...
And you can also expect kinjutsu's to have different levels as well you ca't expect them all to have just one level.

No it isn't... Sakura learned tree walking instantly. Therefore ANY amount of time aside from being able to do it on the first try isn't smaller proportionaly, rather proportionaly it is infinitly larger. Also you do realize that your argument is saying that Naruto has more abillity with chakra control then Sakura.

If they would start from the same premises i would agree with you but you ignore what i said, let's see:
Sakura: Very small chakra reserves excellent controll
Naruto: Enourmous own chakra reserves, has a demon screwing his chakra system since he was born and a freaking seal that screws him even more when he attempts water walking.
You are ignoring the speed to which he adapts to the overly screwed chakra system he has. It's like having a whole new system.
Take into account that he learns water walking instantly after the seal is removed (again shifting the way his chakra moves) and you got something you can't ignore.
Let's see:
Sakura with her advantage in chakra control learns tree walking: 1 try
Naruto with seal over seal a demon and a huge chakra reserve learns water walking a much harder tehnique in: 5 tryes. Just look in the manga and check.
That should tell something especially when the first 4 were with Oro's seal on...

[Shadell]

[quote="Moshulel"
So you are claiming Zabuza doesn't know his stuff? I dunno maybe a jounin would know a few detailes about the jutsu he uses because dunno not knowing them could lead to DEATH?[/quote]
No I'm saying that Zabuza made a MB with 1/10 his power. We do not know conclusivly if that applies to EVERY MB in existence, or just that specific one.

As much as i would want you to be right here you aren't, you should keep in mind that Lee's muscles are much more developed than those of Sasuke yet the Mary Suegan user copies his speed exactly. It doesn't show him how a tehnique works, it copies it. Not to mention Kishi really screwed up here, at first he said the Mary Suegan casn copy only hand seal tehniques but sasuke manages to copy Lee's taijutsu... bleah...

Technically not. Sasuke did not obtain the speed instantaneously. The ShiShi Rendan was a move he could probably have done without any extra speed or agility. He just copied Lee's body mechanics for the technique. The fact that he managed to train for a month and get Lee's speed is just... a big plot hole that directly contradicts the nature of sharingan.

Now this is getting annoying, for the last time:
THE SCROLL IS NOT FAKE!
Do you think the leaf would place a tehnique like the Kage Bunshin in a fake scroll? Are they actually that idiotic to place a tehnique like that in a decoy?
Why would all that fuss be caused? Why is the whole village in alert?
Also has it occured to you that maybe those were the Ninja's available at that moment? Missions don't do themselves you know.
I would also take a closer look at the nins dispatched after Naruto before posting.
And Kage Bunshin is just the first on the list...

Hmm... Do you mean the ninja that looks sort of like Kakashi. If you look he has both of his eyes showing.

PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:12 pm Post subject:
Quote:
That's why the third was woirried about what Naruto will read in the scroll.... ya because it was just a fake.
The third was worried... But yet no really powerful ninja where sent out after Naruto. And Sarutobi didn't do anything himself aside from tell a few generic ninja to go after Naruto. (Like say Kakashi with his very good tracking dogs). Also if it was really dangerous he wouldn't have let himself be incapacitated by Sexy no jutsu.
However I find the most logical answer regarding the scroll is that Kishimoto had no idea Naruto would go on this long, and when it started KB was going to be one of the greatest most powerful techniques.
Lastly, I find the fact that Naruto didn't think to copy the scroll down for later as quite stupid. Even if it is fake, KB was a great jutsu and it was only the first one there.

1) Oro isn't a Kage. There are only 5 kages if you didn't read the manga.
2) You expect the leaqf to share a kinjutsu that can seal the Kyuubi to other villages? Ya right...
And you can also expect kinjutsu's to have different levels as well you ca't expect them all to have just one level.

It is also stated that there are 5 villages. Then in the chuunin exam arc. contestsants from 6 villages are recognized. Thus Oro=Kage of the 6th village that Kishimoto hadn't thought up yet when he did the beginning of the bridge arc.
2. No But you said kage's would know it. Oro is a kage and doesn't know it therefore your point was wrong.
Also it is never said that the scroll is kinjutsu. It is said taht they are "Dangerous techniques sealed away by the previous Hokage" Yet apparently Kakashi (Student of said hokage) knows them... Again a fairly large inconsitency.

If they would start from the same premises i would agree with you but you ignore what i said, let's see:
Sakura: Very small chakra reserves excellent controll
Naruto: Enourmous own chakra reserves, has a demon screwing his chakra system since he was born and a freaking seal that screws him even more when he attempts water walking.
You are ignoring the speed to which he adapts to the overly screwed chakra system he has. It's like having a whole new system.
Take into account that he learns water walking instantly after the seal is removed (again shifting the way his chakra moves) and you got something you can't ignore.
Let's see:
Sakura with her advantage in chakra control learns tree walking: 1 try
Naruto with seal over seal a demon and a huge chakra reserve learns water walking a much harder tehnique in: 5 tryes.
That should tell something especially when the first 4 were with Oro's seal on...

Ok. I'll agree with you completely. Naruto in fact has excellent chakra control and learning ability (As demonstrated by learning the water walking easily). In fact from the very beginning of the manga he is demonstrated time and again to be a genius. Given that Sakura learns tree-walking 100x quicker then Naruto, she is obviously a much better genius. Now, while you have pointed out that a large chakra is hard to control, you also pointed out that Naruto has no problems learning to control chakra, or controlling his chakra when it isn't sealed by Orochimaru. Thus by simple logic the only possible explanations left are, A. Water Walking isn't hard to learn at all, and Sakura could probably have done it from the start as well.
B. Naruto has great chakra control. In terms of chakra control Sakura is infinitely beyond great.
C. Naruto's learning curve is modified as needed for the plot.
Given that it is stated in the manga that A and B are wrong, you're left with C. Since for me at least the best part about Naruto has always been that Naruto plays a relentless underdog who won't give up even though everyone is stronger then he is. I don't see much of a problem with that. In fact if Naruto were to suddenly turn Uber, I would completely ignore the series, because well without Naruto as the guy who is typically a clown that can pull through at the last minute, the series wouldn't be that good at all.
The fact remains that tree-walking failed to even near the limits of Sakura's ability, while at the time it was well above Naruto's. Thus the fact remains that Sakura was able to master a technique that took Naruto several tries. Now since you've

[Mitchell]

Kage applies only to the FIVE GREAT SHINOBI VILLAGES. All other Ninja Village do not have kages. They have a leader, but that leader is not given the title Kage. I read a fic which had a good name, Boss Juunin. This leader would basiclly have the responsiblities, however politiclly he would have nowhere near the power that a Kage would have in each of the countries.
There are many more villages than the five great ones, they are just given the spotlight.

[Moshulel]

Hmm... Do you mean the ninja that looks sort of like Kakashi. If you look he has both of his eyes showing.

Again i suggest for you to look at the chapter...

It is also stated that there are 5 villages. Then in the chuunin exam arc. contestsants from 6 villages are recognized. Thus Oro=Kage of the 6th village that Kishimoto hadn't thought up yet when he did the beginning of the bridge arc.
2. No But you said kage's would know it. Oro is a kage and doesn't know it therefore your point was wrong.
Also it is never said that the scroll is kinjutsu. It is said taht they are "Dangerous techniques sealed away by the previous Hokage" Yet apparently Kakashi (Student of said hokage) knows them... Again a fairly large inconsitency.

You do realize that NOT every village has a Kage? Or are you coveniantly ignoring that fact?
Also look at chapter 315 it explains why there are 5 great hidden villages but i guess you can ignore that as well...
A kage popping up in a interval of a few months? Not likely... check the fact please before posting.

The fact remains that tree-walking failed to even near the limits of Sakura's ability, while at the time it was well above Naruto's. Thus the fact remains that Sakura was able to master a technique that took Naruto several tries.

Again totally ignoring the preparation they had up to that date, maybe the fact that Sakura HAS a family that teacher don't ignore her counts for something? Also it's never stated that her parent's aren't ninja's.
Has it ever occured to you that tree walking might be the beginming of Naruto's improvement in chakra control?
Granted Sakura is better at that point but she had a lot of advantages in this domain and Naruto constantly improves while her perfect chakra control leaves little room for improvement.
I would also like to point out that even if Sakura manages to learn water walking in 1 try taking into account all the circumstances, Naruto is STILL better.

[GenocideHeart]

Hmm... Do you mean the ninja that looks sort of like Kakashi. If you look he has both of his eyes showing.

I think he means the fact there were an Akimichi, an Inuzuka nad even a Hyuuga (the pale eyes are a dead giveaway) among the pursuers. Three of the strongest clans in the Leaf. Not your average joes.

It is also stated that there are 5 villages. Then in the chuunin exam arc. contestsants from 6 villages are recognized. Thus Oro=Kage of the 6th village that Kishimoto hadn't thought up yet when he did the beginning of the bridge arc.

Um. No. FAIL.
It's stated there are FIVE GREAT COUNTRIES that rule over all other villages of ninja.
Hidden Grass doesn't have a Kage. Hidden Waterfall doesn't have a Kage either.
Just to make two examples.

Also it is never said that the scroll is kinjutsu. It is said taht they are "Dangerous techniques sealed away by the previous Hokage" Yet apparently Kakashi (Student of said hokage) knows them... Again a fairly large inconsitency.

Actually, it's likely that Kakashi copied Kage Bunshin from Naruto, and only knew of its existence beforehand. Also, it is suggested that that scroll also contained the Eight Inner Celestial Body gates, which Kakashi only knows from Gai having used it, he cant use it himself.
Also, a Kage's student is much more likely to learn techniques that normal nin don't know.

Ok. I'll agree with you completely. Naruto in fact has excellent chakra control and learning ability (As demonstrated by learning the water walking easily). In fact from the very beginning of the manga he is demonstrated time and again to be a genius. Given that Sakura learns tree-walking 100x quicker then Naruto, she is obviously a much better genius.

The big difference:
SAKURA PAID ATTENTION IN CLASS AND WAS ACTUALLY TAUGHT BY THE TEACHERS. It's stated that the only teacher who actually bothered with Naruto was Iruka - Mizuki was only using him, and interacted with him just that one time. Add to this that Naruto as I said doesn't pay attention to class, and this means:
Sakura knew the basics.
Naruto did not.
Yet Naruto learned very quickly, just from seeing her and hearing an explanation ONCE.
I'm sorry, but Sakura is nowhere near the level of genius Naruto is. Sakura is a theory and control genius. Naruto is pretty much a genius at EVERYTHING except theory. His curriculum speaks for itself.

[DCG]

All right fanboys break it up.
It was amusing 5 pages ago but now it stops.

[GenocideHeart]

Fine. After all, this is going nowhere.
Although, the debate was interesting.
Sorry for the confusion, DCG.

[Shadell]

Yeah, sorry about that.