The Return [R.5 SM]: Interlude 3 "Down Time"

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Re: The Return [R.5 SM]: Interlude 3 "Down Time"

Postby LawOhki » Sat Jun 11, 2011 2:10 pm

My biggest issue with this chapter is that you spend more time fretting over a dress that is an atrocity to all fashion that is or ever will be, than dealing with what is the important bit, in that Ranma casually tortures and eats someone alive without anyone blinking an eye.
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Re: The Return [R.5 SM]: Interlude 3 "Down Time"

Postby Sunshine Temple » Sat Jun 11, 2011 5:55 pm

LawOhki

My biggest issue with this chapter is that you spend more time fretting over a dress that is an atrocity to all fashion that is or ever will be, than dealing with what is the important bit, in that Ranma casually tortures and eats someone alive without anyone blinking an eye.

[The person Ranma is confiding in is her sister (a professional torturer), and her mother (who ordered said sister to torture her ex husband and accepts said sister as a daughter).
[And Ranma has helped her sister torture people.

[As for eating people slowly and painfully, the boat sailed on that long ago (Alexia's death at Ranma's hands anyone? Alexia's baby minions...)

[Thus difference in this bit is more incremental. (When and how Ranma brutally kills and eats someone). And a good part of that end scene, which is still being revised does deal with that.

[But the whole idea of "OMG she eats people" uh....
[Let's look the first human Ranma kills.

******************
Winters had not disconnected, and from his inexpensive hotel room, Father Oslo listened carefully to the phone. For several seconds the priest only heard the sound of the other man's breathing. Then the roar of gunfire came through the speaker, reducing its true resonance. The brief mechanical noises of the action being worked preceded a follow-up shot.
This was followed by a splashing sound that quickly gave way to screaming. The cries of pain grew louder as they were joined by noises of tearing, ripping, and chewing. Disgust clearly marked on his face, Oslo started praying.
"Go with God, my son," he finished, disconnecting his phone. It was a miracle the device had lasted as long as it did, especially considering how gleeful that monster sounded with its… meal.
******************

[That's in chapter 11. So yeah... boat.... sailed.
[Granted, it's not casual, this man did try to kill Ukyou, but tortures and eats alive?
[Yes. Already done.
[Then again the folks in the Third Interlude were hired rapists. Winters was just a sniper.

[Not that they stood much of a chance against her... but it's not like Winters stood much of a chance either.


Dumbledork

Finished reading the chapter. Quite interesting although there are some things I don't understand.

Why does Ranma look older in the last part when she's baking cookies? Can she change her age at will or what?

[An effect of her being more "Mom-like" and looking more like she could be old enough to have teenage daughters.
[I tried to put in hints that she was looking older during her date too.

[Should I emphasize those parts more?

After the death of the thug there's also been a mention of adfditions to Ranma. Did she evolve?

[There's getting a second pair of horns.
[Evolve in what way?
[I'm toying with a line of progression for succubae... but at high enough power levels they have full control over their forms.
[See BlackSky.

An unrelated question. How's it going with 'Strained Harmony'?

[I'm sorry to say but not too well.
[Just look at the delays on my "Front Burner" stories.
[Terribly sorry about that.

[Could you give the fanart piece a look?
[I know it's a bit of a push, but Pat does put work into them.

[Thanks for commenting.

PCHeintz72

Actually, I generally download the first version, then wait until the final version posted on FF.NET. In the case of this story, I normally also reacquire the previous few chapters, since sometimes they get edited for corrections.

[I this case you might want to look at a latter version.
[At least after V3.
[The V2 draft had some major issues.

Another question... why the heck does Ranma need glasses?
[She doesn't. Stylistic.
[Dang... I can detail that more.

[In some stuff I have written for ch28 I have her occasionally wearing the glasses as a sort of "filter". Lessening the power of her gaze.

frice2000

If you read this before 4:28am EST on June 11 I've made extensive edits below. Just felt like the story was still missing something and in some rambles I constantly kept editing just came up with what's below. Not sure how you'll feel about it but I do think your story needs something like I have outlined if not here soon especially with Sunny evolving into the endgame of demonesshood at least morally.

crushed someone like a bug. Remember the Assembly base? They weren't all Priests and Acolytes. Would you have rather I took prisoners or... what? Or how about all the broodlings, baby succubae that fell by the dozen, what about t

Just thinking back to Girl Talk as an example, Sailor Sun would now be out and out trying to kill Sunny if they met again under these character changes. Don't know how i feel about the pacing considering that. The torture still feels frustratingly not weighty enough. If you have something planned for later ok just feel like it should be here. Something more needs to go here, probably at the end.

[I'm not sure the torture is.
[Again look at the except from chapter 11.
[This is Ranma getting darker yes, but it's pretty incremental.

Ranma lost her innocence before this true but I still think a scene where she truly admits that out loud and is deeply saddened by it should happen. Her eyes clouding over in the most recent addition helps a lot in that regard its just that it feels approriate to go further. A lot further. Shes still a teen. Being comforted by her sister and mother and feeling a little lost and asking for advice feels natural especially since her children are not around right now to worry over. Ask for and receive help and love and forgiveness from Eve here. Not only does that show a very developed Ranma but it also showcases a very changed Eve. Ranma accepted being a succcubus for all the right reasons because she'd be damned morally without doing so but even doing the right thing she's damning herself anyway. Eve has a strong loving family and has changed inside. In regards to Ranma the fic as a whole still feels like its missing that scene and this in an otherwise bright spot and interlude could be a nice unexpected place to put it.

[Eve still tortures people. That part of her hasn't changed one iota.
[On the contrary she's teaching Ranma and bringing her closer to that world.

[Yes it's at the behest of "legitimate" state-endorsed actors, but Eve's still quite bad.
[That doesn't mean I don't like your following idea.


Really think you should go into small breakdown here. Have Sunny cry a little while holding onto Eve saying she never would have imagined doing the things shes done and that tonight was one of the worst things yet, but that it felt so natural so good. Maybe have Eve call her 'Sunny'. Have her pause and nod her head saying something like 'Yes, that's my name now. It used to be different. <Laugh>. I was a innocent kid named Ranma. Bit of an ass but a good heart he never would've done what I've had to do. He left....That's for the best. I'm whole with all of you, have her deeply embrace Eve and bless the change for giving her a wonderful sister,

<snip>

If you want to leave it as it sits I can respect that. It's very nicely written more then likely beyond anything I could write. It's just that I know you can do more with it. You can still make this chapter and thus the storyline to come a lot more special by turning a very dark and as you've said important moment into a affirming one.

[The bit with "not having the humans involved here" raises an interesting question with Nodoka.
[But I've been giving some hints with that.

[I considered giving a point by point response... but felt it was better to write out the scene.
[I think this addresses your concerns well.


"Drained yes, this was the first time she actually killed someone and tore out their organs."
"Good for her," Ranma nodded thoughtfully. "And here she was trying to setup my first time."
Eve raised an eyebrow.
"What?"
"It's just that you think her first time killing a man is a good thing."
Ranma sighed. "It had to happen eventually. Better like this." She looked at her clothes she wore, at the costume.
"Sounds more like something I'd say."
"I did make you my sister."
Eve felt the love pulse from Ranma's form, but she also felt a growing knot of anxiety.
"You know the first human I killed, I ate?" Ranma's tongue flicked across her lips. "I don't even know his name."
"Paladin, Earl Winters. Assembly of Man sniper," Eve automatically supplied.
"Yes, I remember that last part." Ranma's hand went to her side where the Demon Bane round hit, taking a shot meant for Ukyou. "That was..." She looked down over her clothes at the apron and ruffles and shoes. She could feel her hair and horns weighing down her head. Her lip quivered and her shoulders rose then slumped.
Eve nodded. "I've read the reports on the scene."
"It was the same! The man I killed tonight, slow, savoring." Sobbing, her face feel, her stance that of a woman under immense loads. "I've done it before, right from the start."
Scooping her in her arms, Eve embraced the shivering demon. "Tonight was different. You know what they wanted to do to you."
"That's not it, I've got no sympathy for hired rapists. I might have more for a soldier doing his job but that won't stop me. I'm in control." Soft giggles came out. "Self control won, but at the cost of the self."
"I'm scared because I can't blame the demon. I am the demon." Her voice was a tight whisper. "I can't blame some dark side of me taking control and having me do these things." She looked up and despite the filtering of the purple glasses her eyes locked onto Eve's. "We are in control. Everything I've done, I've done. It was all me. I made it happen, and with this body, my body I... liked it."
"Ranma?"
The demoness laughed. "I was a innocent kid named Ranma. Bit of an ass, a clueless dope really, but a good heart. He never would've done what I've had to do. He never had to face what I'd have done, the choices I had to make. I don't know what he would have done. He left....That's for the best. I don't think he could have handled it, not without..." Smiling, the redhead pulled into the hug and opened the floodgates. "I'm whole with all of you."
Eve's eyes widened the love and anxiety she had been feeling before was just a trickle, she was now under a torrent of emotive power. "Sunny?" she eventually gasped out.
The redheaded brood mother's eyes flashed. "That's a fake name, a name given as a joke. No. No, I'm Ranma. He left; he couldn't hack it. I stayed; I fought; I bled; I killed. I've sacrificed everything for my children. I won that name. It's mine. Mine." An almost growling edge entered her voice.
Eve barely noticed the words. Especially as the emotive equivalent pounded her. Ranma had been put into a crucible and much had been burned away: Her innocence, her humanity, his gender. But what remained was a tempered loving strength that stood and supported the whole brood.
The sensations grew and Eve felt the web of connections, the empathic bonds that ran out from Ranma. There was the bright channel that wrapped around the two of them, the throbbing beams that stretched out to her daughters. There were connections that reached out to Cecilia and her daughters, and, Eve noted with a blush, there were links with Sophie, Morgan, and Morison.
There was a smattering of other connections. Ones that when compared to the others seemed almost stunted and one-way. Two stuck out in Eve's mind. One that despite the limitations was still heavy and full of love that linked to Nodoka who was nearby and another that was fussed over had been broken but mended, that could only be to Kasumi. Eve sensed others ones that were less distinct but could guess that they went to Ranma's father, Nariko's father, her school-girl friends, many of the agents, and even Jacob.
Eve found herself falling into her sister's arms. Her mind drifted, floating on the flooding emotions coming from Ranma. Her experiences, her sacrifices had taken much from, but what remained and what was reinforced stood. Ranma stood. She supported her brood, but they in turn supported her. They gave her the drive to move forward.
The blonde pulled into the embrace and almost missed the redhead's question. "What?" Eve blinked, focusing her attention.
"Cecilia, I asked if she was worried?" The redhead frowned and helped Eve get up. "She seemed happy when you guys dropped me off here. How's she taking it, now?"
"You were thinking about her?"
"I was thinking about both of you." Ranma smiled. "But I know how you're feeling."
Eve blushed.
"Thanks for the help," Ranma squeezed her. "I have to know it's... worth it."
"It is," Eve assured. "For Cecilia... she's still thinking it over. It's a lot for her, she's not like us."
"Not killers you mean?" Ranma's eyes glinted. "She should be so lucky. I should go see her after breakfast."

[[

[The rest of the scene has also been modified to fit this sequence.
[But those changes are lesser than the preceding, which is all new material.

[Thanks for the comments.
[And I'm sure this will get some new comments so I can adjust it to be even better ;p
[Looking forward to that

[It's a bit spooky to see such in-depth thoughts and concerns for these characters.

[Changes uploaded with V3e
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Re: The Return [R.5 SM]: Interlude 3 "Down Time"

Postby frice2000 » Sat Jun 11, 2011 7:00 pm

sister (a professional torturer), and her mother (who ordered said sister to torture her ex husband and accepts said sister as a daughter).
[And Ranma has helped her sister torture people.

I can't agree with this. They've done some awful things yes. Eve was a torturer yes, but he did that for a reason. He did it to advance the ideals of an organization not for himself and not to watch someone squirm. He wasn't a serial killer or a psychopath, he obviously felt emotions when he was a human. He just felt that he couldn't be loved due to what he rightly perceived as all of the darkness within him. Now Eve is a succubus she still does some awful things, her sister has helped her do awful things. They torture yes, but again to this point they haven't done that for fun it's been with an agenda. They may have done something more brutal then they had to before but this was really the first example of seemingly hunting a human for sport.

The succubae are hunters. We've established that. They like draining and killing things we've established that to. However, they are sex demons. Sure there talents make them quite good fighters and have in-built excellent qualifications as a species for combat. They are demons to so I can understand the lack of ethics, but to make another more accurate analogy let's discuss a human hunter killing for example a buck. The buck is a proud animal that can gore the human hunter quite badly with it's horns if given the chance but the human has a extremely accurate rifle and backup handgun if something goes wrong. The hunter can shoot the deer before the deer even sees it or knows that it's present. The hunter shoots the deer fatally wounding it and the deer tramples off into the undergrowth bleeding badly. The hunter gets down from his tree and follows the trail he finds the deer fighting for life but fatally wounded his bullet hit the deer just right to cause it to slowly die. The hunter can either watch the deer suffer for another hour or he can take out a knife and slit it's throat and let its pain end. Most hunters aren't going to sit and watch it struggle or enjoy the pain it's experiencing. That's what you've done for this scene.

You bring up:
The cries of pain grew louder as they were joined by noises of tearing, ripping, and chewing. Disgust clearly marked on his face, Oslo started praying

I can see how you're thinking why are you worried about this now when this scene happened before and you accepted it then. And I did. I did accept it then I thought Winters there deserved what he had coming. But there was a reason for that and Ranma wasn't in control she was on instincts. She just got shot and her daughter just got shot. She was badly wounded I think you listed that she lost pounds of flesh and organs. She thought her daughter might be fatally wounded. So with a giant hole in her side and with revenge on her mind and a guy who threatened to kill her daughter and almost feral mindset she went and killed and consumed the guy while he was still alive. She then when confronted covered in gore went and brought a piece of the dead man to her daughter to help in the healing process. This just isn't the same as what you have here. Here Ranma's in control, here Ranma isn't wounded. Yes, the men are threatening her and yes she'll likely kill them. And then eat them. That's fine. But she's enjoying their pain. Lapping it up. That IS a logical progression for her it's again just the first time she's done it with not a ton of other things pushing her into it. Yes, she's done it before but in those instances she was either in battle, wounded, or injured.

[Then again the folks in the Third Interlude were hired rapists. Winters was just a sniper.

[Not that they stood much of a chance against her... but it's not like Winters stood much of a chance either.

This is Ranma getting darker yes, but it's pretty incremental.

Yes, but Winters injured and almost killed her daughter and almost killed her. She wasn't in control then really. Maybe she kind of was as you list below now but it just feels hollow to me comparing the two. The first thing to come to mind when I read about Murdock hiring these guys was literally, 'Oh he's giving her dessert.' So again the problem isn't her killing and eating them. It's her eating and then killing them with no instincts or revenge in mind. As you've seen I never said something like, 'take this scene out' I do think it works very very well in this piece. I do think though that the eating while still alive bit while totally in control of herself is crossing a line that you haven't crossed before. Her equating the two later feels like she's cheating saying she's done it before she really hasn't when she knew exactly what she was doing. Still don't think you realize that. Again totally expected her to kill them brutally and then eat them. Didn't expect her to play with her food in that even with the quote from Chapter 11 I still struggle to see this as incremental. Plausible evolution of character? Yes absolutely. It's just that if that is a case it's a massive character change and needed the light shined on it. What you have below I think does it partially and it is very, very powerfully and well written it just feels slightly flawed still since try as I might I can't equivocate her actions in Chapter 11 with her actions here.

[The bit with "not having the humans involved here" raises an interesting question with Nodoka.

Nodoka is a interesting character throughout this. I really wonder what her idea is. She's quite hard to peg down and that is something that will be interesting to see get resolved.

her face feel,

her face fell

"It was the same! The man I killed tonight, slow, savoring

This is very very well written. And very very nicely emotional. As I said before though I just can't make myself see it as the same. It doesn't feel the same in context so the line and what follows even though very very well written still feels flawed.

"Self control won, but at the cost of the self."

Very, very impressive line showcasing the moral changes.

"I'm scared because I can't blame the demon. I am the demon.

What follows from here is really excellent and really seemingly the best part in this entire story and all of your writings that I've read to date. Don't think you should change any of it. Before this line though still think it needs coming to terms with torturing and eating someone at the same time though. Also could use a little more development for Eve with maybe her showing that she too has recovered and become 'better' a little. Sure she's still a killer but think it could use some more kernels of her understanding and trying to connect more awkwardly. Would lead to what follows later to be much more rewarding for her to. This really is a GREAT altering and end point of a long saga that led them here. They aren't going to be the same after airing this so give Eve another nudge and rub is all.

That's a fake name, a name given as a joke. No. No, I'm Ranma. He left; he couldn't hack it. I stayed; I fought; I bled; I killed. I've sacrificed everything for my children. I won that name. It's mine. Mine." An almost growling edge entered her voice.

Excellent. Really, really excellent. Didn't expect that. Hope you have that slightly enforced her asking to be called Ranma when someone calls her Sunny. That is a very very nice development piece. That whole line could be the summary to this story now and rightly so.

Eve barely noticed the words. Especially as the emotive equivalent pounded her. Ranma had been put into a crucible and much had been burned away: Her innocence, her humanity, his gender. But what remained was a tempered loving strength that stood and supported the whole brood.
The sensations grew and Eve felt the web of connections, the empathic bonds that ran out from Ranma. There was the bright channel that wrapped around the two of them, the throbbing beams that stretched out to her daughters. There were connections that reached out to Cecilia and her daughters, and, Eve noted with a blush, there were links with Sophie, Morgan, and Morison.
There was a smattering of other connections.

And you've made her if not human again relateable in the extreme. You've given your audience a real reason to connect back up with her to feel for what she's doing even if we don't always agree with it. Very very nice.

had taken much from

had taken much from her,

Her experiences, her sacrifices had taken much from, but what remained and what was reinforced stood. Ranma stood. She supported her brood, but they in turn supported her. They gave her the drive to move forward.

Again great line. Very very rewarding for someone whose followed the story and their development. Very nice.

The blonde pulled into the embrace and almost

For some reason here just want her to be purring a little if I want to be hypercritical. And not be able to answer her question because of what you just went through. Maybe her even thanking her here for giving her a family and reaffirming how much it all means to her too. Would nicely twin the previous bit. Not as in depth because she's not as far along but some.

[It's a bit spooky to see such in-depth thoughts and concerns for these characters.

I like these characters, I like what they've gone through and who they are. At points though it's felt like you've forgotten some of the deeper elements of them though. It's nice to see them still so very much there. If you keep that in mind I'll be quite excited to see how things move along now. You've made this interlude something special now very nice work. Still feel the initial acceptance is a bit easy and a bit flawed but overall this is a fantastic addition.
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Re: The Return [R.5 SM]: Interlude 3 "Down Time"

Postby LawOhki » Sat Jun 11, 2011 7:12 pm

Sunshine wrote:[As for eating people slowly and painfully, the boat sailed on that long ago (Alexia's death at Ranma's hands anyone? Alexia's baby minions...)

[Thus difference in this bit is more incremental. (When and how Ranma brutally kills and eats someone). And a good part of that end scene, which is still being revised does deal with that.

[But the whole idea of "OMG she eats people" uh....
[Let's look the first human Ranma kills.


Your immoral equivalence doesn't work. Alexia, Winters, and the like were reactionary or because there wasn't much need to care. (Broodlings being brainwashed and such) Winters just tried to kill someone dear to Ranma and was in anything but an incontrol state of mind. Alexia did a lot of very nasty things that were a direct threat that just ended that way.

Not one of these guys was a threat and the reaction from the rest like the observation team, is that they consider this a reasonable response. Where's Genma in this? What would his opinion be on Ranma basically going out and kicking a puppy to death slowly. Even Nodoka, what kind of sociopath of a mother is she to not find issue with such casual cruelty? Genma screwed her over and she got some revenge on him for it, not like Genma got his fingers and toes cut off from it.

It's not that Ranma did it, it's this positive light that it gets spun into. Now you actually made it so Ranma uses it as something life affirming when mentioning throwing away her old life as male Ranma. She was being cruel to be cruel. Congratulations, you are now Alexia.
Last edited by LawOhki on Sat Jun 11, 2011 8:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Return [R.5 SM]: Interlude 3 "Down Time"

Postby frice2000 » Sat Jun 11, 2011 7:21 pm

She was being cruel to be cruel. Congratulations, you are now Alexia.

That's a very interesting statement. Really do have to be careful and it isn't something I considered here. How close is she to going that far? Sure she hasn't rewritten her children's heads or forced them into tanning salons but you are getting uncomfortably close. Could use some more stuff to pull her back interesting thought indeed.
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Re: The Return [R.5 SM]: Interlude 3 "Down Time"

Postby Sunshine Temple » Sat Jun 11, 2011 7:41 pm

frice2000

sister (a professional torturer), and her mother (who ordered said sister to torture her ex husband and accepts said sister as a daughter).
[And Ranma has helped her sister torture people.

I can't agree with this. They've done some awful things yes. Eve was a torturer yes, but he did that for a reason. He did it to advance the ideals of an organization not for himself and not to watch someone squirm. He wasn't a serial killer or a psychopath, he obviously felt emotions when he was a human. He just felt that he couldn't be loved due to what he rightly perceived as all of the darkness within him. Now Eve is a succubus she still does some awful things, her sister has helped her do awful things. They torture yes, but again to this point they haven't done that for fun it's been with an agenda. They may have done something more brutal then they had to before but this was really the first example of seemingly hunting a human for sport.

The succubae are hunters. We've established that. They like draining and killing things we've established that to. However, they are sex demons. Sure there talents make them quite good fighters and have in-built excellent qualifications as a species for combat. They are demons to so I can understand the lack of ethics, but to make another more accurate analogy let's discuss a human hunter killing for example a buck. The buck is a proud animal that can gore the human hunter quite badly with it's horns if given the chance but the human has a extremely accurate rifle and backup handgun if something goes wrong. The hunter can shoot the deer before the deer even sees it or knows that it's present. The hunter shoots the deer fatally wounding it and the deer tramples off into the undergrowth bleeding badly. The hunter gets down from his tree and follows the trail he finds the deer fighting for life but fatally wounded his bullet hit the deer just right to cause it to slowly die. The hunter can either watch the deer suffer for another hour or he can take out a knife and slit it's throat and let its pain end. Most hunters aren't going to sit and watch it struggle or enjoy the pain it's experiencing. That's what you've done for this scene.


[Okay.... now I understand.
[The whole pain for sport angle.
[And looking back, that's not... quite what she wanted.

[Here's a revision of the scene.

[[ Cecilia swallowed, and after hesitating indulged herself. Kneeling down to the man, to her prey, she began to feed. It was different. Instead of having prey that needed to be coaxed into release, this time a lump of yowling meat was presented before her.
In spite of the blood loss, the ripped muscles, the shredded entrails, and the swaths of missing skin, the man the redhead straddled was still alive. His heart and lungs were still intact, and air bubbled out of the ruin of his nose and around the hand clamped over his mouth.
Straddling the man her face clouded. As she drained, she took the choice bits of muscle and organs. She narrowed eyes gave a quick claw swipe and took his life. She had felt his pain, his fear; too much it soured the meal.
Pausing she looked over and saw Eve performing a similar maneuver as she cracked open a rib cage to extract a freshly-stilled heart. However, the part that truly chilled and exited the lavender-haired brood mother was seeing the queen work.
Then with a contented sigh, the demoness looked down. Foreplay was over and she started deeper, more excavating cuts. Now, she was simply cutting up her food into manageable bites. Though she would occasionally skip that aspect and dive into the carcass with her mouth. Blood and viscera splattering against the remnants of her dress and caking the accessories that had yet to fall off.
]]

[Not sure if it's clearer, a cop out, or better.

You bring up:
The cries of pain grew louder as they were joined by noises of tearing, ripping, and chewing. Disgust clearly marked on his face, Oslo started praying

I can see how you're thinking why are you worried about this now when this scene happened before and you accepted it then. And I did. I did accept it then I thought Winters there deserved what he had coming. But there was a reason for that and Ranma wasn't in control she was on instincts. She just got shot and her daughter just got shot. She was badly wounded I think you listed that she lost pounds of flesh and organs. She thought her daughter might be fatally wounded. So with a giant hole in her side and with revenge on her mind and a guy who threatened to kill her daughter and almost feral mindset she went and killed and consumed the guy while he was still alive. She then when confronted covered in gore went and brought a piece of the dead man to her daughter to help in the healing process. This just isn't the same as what you have here. Here Ranma's in control, here Ranma isn't wounded. Yes, the men are threatening her and yes she'll likely kill them. And then eat them. That's fine. But she's enjoying their pain. Lapping it up. That IS a logical progression for her it's again just the first time she's done it with not a ton of other things pushing her into it. Yes, she's done it before but in those instances she was either in battle, wounded, or injured.


[Yes, though the control is the thing.
[And I yes, there's the lapping of pain.
[Which wasn't quite the thing.

[Then again the folks in the Third Interlude were hired rapists. Winters was just a sniper.

[Not that they stood much of a chance against her... but it's not like Winters stood much of a chance either.

This is Ranma getting darker yes, but it's pretty incremental.

Yes, but Winters injured and almost killed her daughter and almost killed her. She wasn't in control then really. Maybe she kind of was as you list below now but it just feels hollow to me comparing the two. The first thing to come to mind when I read about Murdock hiring these guys was literally, 'Oh he's giving her dessert.' So again the problem isn't her killing and eating them. It's her eating and then killing them with no instincts or revenge in mind. As you've seen I never said something like, 'take this scene out' I do think it works very very well in this piece. I do think though that the eating while still alive bit while totally in control of herself is crossing a line that you haven't crossed before. Her equating the two later feels like she's cheating saying she's done it before she really hasn't when she knew exactly what she was doing. Still don't think you realize that. Again totally expected her to kill them brutally and then eat them. Didn't expect her to play with her food in that even with the quote from Chapter 11 I still struggle to see this as incremental. Plausible evolution of character? Yes absolutely. It's just that if that is a case it's a massive character change and needed the light shined on it. What you have below I think does it partially and it is very, very powerfully and well written it just feels slightly flawed still since try as I might I can't equivocate her actions in Chapter 11 with her actions here.

[Yes, what I'm seeing is that I did write the scene further than I actually thought.
[As I wanted the "playing" to not be quite as much as it came off.

[The bit with "not having the humans involved here" raises an interesting question with Nodoka.

Nodoka is a interesting character throughout this. I really wonder what her idea is. She's quite hard to peg down and that is something that will be interesting to see get resolved.

[Indeed she's quite fun here.

her face feel,

her face fell

[Got it.

"It was the same! The man I killed tonight, slow, savoring

This is very very well written. And very very nicely emotional. As I said before though I just can't make myself see it as the same. It doesn't feel the same in context so the line and what follows even though very very well written still feels flawed.
[Maybe with the previous rewrite it fits better.

[[
"It was the same! The man I killed tonight, savoring." Sobbing, her face fell, her stance that of a woman under immense loads. "I've done it before, right from the start. And you know what kept it from being worse? It started to taste bad!"
]]


"Self control won, but at the cost of the self."

Very, very impressive line showcasing the moral changes.

[Thank you.

"I'm scared because I can't blame the demon. I am the demon.

What follows from here is really excellent and really seemingly the best part in this entire story and all of your writings that I've read to date. Don't think you should change any of it. Before this line though still think it needs coming to terms with torturing and eating someone at the same time though. Also could use a little more development for Eve with maybe her showing that she too has recovered and become 'better' a little. Sure she's still a killer but think it could use some more kernels of her understanding and trying to connect more awkwardly. Would lead to what follows later to be much more rewarding for her to. This really is a GREAT altering and end point of a long saga that led them here. They aren't going to be the same after airing this so give Eve another nudge and rub is all.

[Oooh, most impressive.
[Agreed, the revisions have really helped the strength of this piece.



That's a fake name, a name given as a joke. No. No, I'm Ranma. He left; he couldn't hack it. I stayed; I fought; I bled; I killed. I've sacrificed everything for my children. I won that name. It's mine. Mine." An almost growling edge entered her voice.

Excellent. Really, really excellent. Didn't expect that. Hope you have that slightly enforced her asking to be called Ranma when someone calls her Sunny. That is a very very nice development piece. That whole line could be the summary to this story now and rightly so.

[It seemed to fit her.
[As she endures and will fight with immense tenacity.
[She's going to keep that name, she Earned it.



Eve barely noticed the words. Especially as the emotive equivalent pounded her. Ranma had been put into a crucible and much had been burned away: Her innocence, her humanity, his gender. But what remained was a tempered loving strength that stood and supported the whole brood.
The sensations grew and Eve felt the web of connections, the empathic bonds that ran out from Ranma. There was the bright channel that wrapped around the two of them, the throbbing beams that stretched out to her daughters. There were connections that reached out to Cecilia and her daughters, and, Eve noted with a blush, there were links with Sophie, Morgan, and Morison.
There was a smattering of other connections.

And you've made her if not human again relateable in the extreme. You've given your audience a real reason to connect back up with her to feel for what she's doing even if we don't always agree with it. Very very nice.

[Yay.

had taken much from

had taken much from her,


[[her sacrifices had taken much,

Her experiences, her sacrifices had taken much from, but what remained and what was reinforced stood. Ranma stood. She supported her brood, but they in turn supported her. They gave her the drive to move forward.

Again great line. Very very rewarding for someone whose followed the story and their development. Very nice.

[Excellent.

The blonde pulled into the embrace and almost

For some reason here just want her to be purring a little if I want to be hypercritical. And not be able to answer her question because of what you just went through. Maybe her even thanking her here for giving her a family and reaffirming how much it all means to her too. Would nicely twin the previous bit. Not as in depth because she's not as far along but some.

[I think I have an idea.

[[
Eve found herself falling into her sister's arms. Her mind drifted, floating on the flooding emotions coming from Ranma. Her experiences, her sacrifices had taken much, but what remained and what was reinforced stood. Ranma stood. She supported her brood, but they in turn supported her. They gave her the drive to move forward.
Looking at the bonds between herself and Ranma and Ranma and her own daughters, the next realization hit Eve, weakening her knees. She had the same bonds and the same support structure that drove Ranma. Her daughters depended on her; she depended on them. She was not alone.
Purring, the blonde pulled into the embrace and sank to fluffy contentment. She almost missed the redhead's question. "What?" Eve blinked, focusing her attention.
]]

[I think adding that helps recolor Eve's subsequent actions.


[It's a bit spooky to see such in-depth thoughts and concerns for these characters.

I like these characters, I like what they've gone through and who they are. At points though it's felt like you've forgotten some of the deeper elements of them though. It's nice to see them still so very much there. If you keep that in mind I'll be quite excited to see how things move along now. You've made this interlude something special now very nice work. Still feel the initial acceptance is a bit easy and a bit flawed but overall this is a fantastic addition.

[That's very good.
[I'm quite happy with the weight this has brought to the story.
[I didn't expect it to act quite as much of a touchstone on who Ranma (and Eve) are but it's far for the better with it.

[And I thank you for the help in getting it this way.
[It's very, very much appreciated.

[Uploaded in V4a
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Re: The Return [R.5 SM]: Interlude 3 "Down Time"

Postby frice2000 » Sat Jun 11, 2011 8:10 pm

this time a lump of yowling meat was presented before her.

Another idea here one which might complicate this up a little but could also be helpful...Would be interesting to see what there reaction to a total innocent coming across the scene is. Maybe a mother holding her baby that lives in the apartment near where they are standing, a police officer, a young kid out playing, someone homeless...whatever just someone whose nearby and hears the screams. Have them knock them out or grab them and do some metal manipulation on that person so they forget what they just saw, don't have them kill or hurt them. Sure they are eating and torturing some guys that threatened them, but they also show pity and won't cross a certain line and you can easily have both at the same time. Gives you balance while also letting you have the succubae engage in such wanton acts but not push the inhumanity meter higher then some readers would feel comfortable. Really shows the complicated creatures they are ideally, while also showcasing the horror of the scene that the Company agents and the succubuae simply can't.

[Not sure if it's clearer, a cop out, or better.

No that's clearer didn't consider the emphatic feeding elements. Not sure if that makes it more brutal but it does make it more understandable.

killed tonight, savoring."

killed tonight. I savored it." Gives it more of the emotional distress she's going into here with shorter sentences.

[I think adding that helps recolor Eve's subsequent actions.

It's nice. Only one little thing I'd add is:
She was not alone.
Purring, the blonde pulled into the embrace and sank to fluffy contentment.

Right around there her simply muttering something like, 'Love ya sis.' And possibly going deeper with a sisterly kiss.
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Re: The Return [R.5 SM]: Interlude 3 "Down Time"

Postby Sunshine Temple » Sat Jun 11, 2011 8:21 pm

this time a lump of yowling meat was presented before her.

Another idea here one which might complicate this up a little but could also be helpful...Would be interesting to see what there reaction to a total innocent coming across the scene is. Maybe a mother holding her baby that lives in the apartment near where they are standing, a police officer, a young kid out playing, someone homeless...whatever just someone whose nearby and hears the screams. Have them knock them out or grab them and do some metal manipulation on that person so they forget what they just saw, don't have them kill or hurt them. Sure they are eating and torturing some guys that threatened them, but they also show pity and won't cross a certain line and you can easily have both at the same time. Gives you balance while also letting you have the succubae engage in such wanton acts but not push the inhumanity meter higher then some readers would feel comfortable. Really shows the complicated creatures they are ideally, while also showcasing the horror of the scene that the Company agents and the succubuae simply can't.

[Hmm, while I can see a person showing up and giving an outsider's view.
[I'm not sure this piece right here is the right place for it.

[As it's currently a very contained piece character wise.

[Hmmm, no, not sure it would fit in.

[Not sure if it's clearer, a cop out, or better.

No that's clearer didn't consider the emphatic feeding elements. Not sure if that makes it more brutal but it does make it more understandable.

[There's also that she isn't as graphic as before, and she does make it "quicker".

[It also leaves the very dark idea that she might start liking the "sour" flavor.

killed tonight, savoring."

killed tonight. I savored it." Gives it more of the emotional distress she's going into here with shorter sentences.

[Much better.

[I think adding that helps recolor Eve's subsequent actions.

It's nice. Only one little thing I'd add is:
She was not alone.
Purring, the blonde pulled into the embrace and sank to fluffy contentment.

Right around there her simply muttering something like, 'Love ya sis.' And possibly going deeper with a sisterly kiss.

[Oooh very nice.
[There's also that Eve using such informality shows her comfort level with Ranma, and that she's lowered all of her defenses.
[Which is big for her.

[[
Purring, the blonde pulled into the embrace and sank to fluffy contentment. "Love you, Sis," she said before giving her a quick, sisterly kiss.
Leaning onto Ranma cheek to cheek, Eve almost missed the redhead's quiet question. "What?" Eve blinked, focusing her attention.
]]

[Updated with V4b.

[You've been a great help with this. Not sure I can understate that. Given how this work has shaped up. Thanks again.
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Re: The Return [R.5 SM]: Interlude 3 "Down Time"

Postby frice2000 » Sat Jun 11, 2011 8:40 pm

Hmm, while I can see a person showing up and giving an outsider's view.

While the outsider's view would be interesting I really think something like that just gives a really nice duality in there existence and behavior. Don't even have to name or describe the person or showcase what they saw. Simply state they saw the person, have them see the person subdue them, and then not hurt them but show compassion towards them. Showcases both sides of Ranma and her brood is all and makes the matter of where they stand morally a injection of white while at the same time an injection of black is all I'm thinking what with the rest of the scene. I can understand not doing that though does make things a lot muddier and more complex with the action in that scene.

Eve almost missed the redhead's quiet question

Very nice really does show Eve's development. Would like a little bit of Ranma responding to that though, maybe as simple as hugging her tighter.

You've been a great help with this.

You're welcome :). I like what this has become now feels very good indeed and really does cap the story and show a turning point like the first Interlude did now. Very nice all in all. Oh and since someone else mentioned Strained Harmony I thought I'd inquire into the status of Gunslinger Moon again, that's a fun story I'd like to see more of or barring actual chapters at least an outline I was very interested in what the arcs would've been there.
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Re: The Return [R.5 SM]: Interlude 3 "Down Time"

Postby Sunshine Temple » Sat Jun 11, 2011 8:52 pm

frice2000

Hmm, while I can see a person showing up and giving an outsider's view.

While the outsider's view would be interesting I really think something like that just gives a really nice duality in there existence and behavior. Don't even have to name or describe the person or showcase what they saw. Simply state they saw the person, have them see the person subdue them, and then not hurt them but show compassion towards them. Showcases both sides of Ranma and her brood is all and makes the matter of where they stand morally a injection of white while at the same time an injection of black is all I'm thinking what with the rest of the scene. I can understand not doing that though does make things a lot muddier and more complex with the action in that scene.

[I still think it doesn't quite fit in this part of the story.
[Mostly because of the relatively abbreviated cast in here.

[I can see something like this coming up in a later battle.

Eve almost missed the redhead's quiet question

Very nice really does show Eve's development. Would like a little bit of Ranma responding to that though, maybe as simple as hugging her tighter.

[Great, and clothing and hair indulgences aside I do like the less is more style of narrative.

[[
Purring, the blonde pulled into the embrace and sank to fluffy contentment. "Love you, Sis," she said before giving her a quick, sisterly kiss.
Blissful, Ranma tightened the hug.
Leaning onto Ranma cheek to cheek, Eve almost missed the redhead's quiet question. "What?" Eve blinked, focusing her attention.
]]

You've been a great help with this.

You're welcome :). I like what this has become now feels very good indeed and really does cap the story and show a turning point like the first Interlude did now. Very nice all in all.

[Yeah, it's soft of like hiking a long trail up a mountain and then looking back and seeing the distance you've covered.

Oh and since someone else mentioned Strained Harmony I thought I'd inquire into the status of Gunslinger Moon again, that's a fun story I'd like to see more of or barring actual chapters at least an outline I was very interested in what the arcs would've been there.

[Sorry to say that that story is even more in the mists of time.
[I don't really know if I'll get back to that one.

[At least with Strained Harmony I have far more desire to get back to that one. And have written more for it.

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Re: The Return [R.5 SM]: Interlude 3 "Down Time"

Postby Sunshine Temple » Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:02 pm

Planning to upload to FF.net today.

Thanks for all the help and comments!
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Re: The Return [R.5 SM]: Interlude 3 "Down Time"

Postby Cheb » Wed Jun 15, 2011 2:26 am

[...] "Paladin, Earl Winters. Assembly of Man sniper," Eve automatically supplied.
"Yes, I remember that last part." Ranma's hand went to her side where the Demon Bane round hit, taking a shot meant for Ukyou.[...]

Oooh Image
What a scene! Almost overcame my (quite high) Tear Jerker damage threshold.
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Re: The Return [R.5 SM]: Interlude 3 "Down Time"

Postby Sunshine Temple » Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:56 am

Cheb
"Paladin, Earl Winters. Assembly of Man sniper," Eve automatically supplied.
"Yes, I remember that last part." Ranma's hand went to her side where the Demon Bane round hit, taking a shot meant for Ukyou.[...] [/quote]
Oooh Image
What a scene! Almost overcame my (quite high) Tear Jerker damage threshold.

[Awww. Shows the fic can still pull at you ;p
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Re: The Return [R.5 SM]: Interlude 3 "Down Time"

Postby Nadrek » Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:31 pm

I've just re-read The Return, and will simply make my comments here, if that's all right.

The Company was reputed to have two other NH units still active (Ch. 23); yet the Brood's equipment appears very strongly to be the first superhuman strength semi-custom/small manufacturing run weaponry the Company has had. That said... are the other two units going to be trained on these?

Similarly, Blacksky visited her granddaughter of 10 years, Yohko, and encouraged her to visit Ranma, who is in much need of a discussion with a more experienced succubus, especially as she is the eldest and the cornerstone of her brood.

I still like the discussion with the Vatican rep and the Sister of Purity; another one without Usagi present would be truly interesting.

As far as Murdock's little present in Interlude 3; after a re-read I still don't find Ranma's torturing and eating the punks to be terribly odd. The whole eating aspect was put to bed many, many chapters ago; that's a nonissue. Torturing was handled by Ranma's helping Eve out on Murdock, not long ago; again, if it wasn't odd there, it's not odd here. The 3 punks as a treat is little more to Return's Ranma, to my mind, than countless other fanfics showing a much less altered Ranma trolling for street trash for their money and/or killing them (Mahoranma includes a highly altered Ranma, but also one that eats being capable of intelligent speech) as appropriate.

Now, the _real_ question about Murdock's gift is the fun bit; Eve appeared to be focussed on the pin, and apparently wasn't thinking that Murdock was also probably behind the high school incident, which brought Ranma the succubus into deadly combat for the first time. The real trap here might be Murdock's present bringing Ranma the succubus into some of the hunting habits of her species for the first time; prior to this, she was engaging in combat first, not hunting first. The pin or the flesh may have a trap, but it's probably a throwaway if there is.

As always, I'm looking forward to Ranma teleporting... perhaps to the Moon to scavenge before the Main Senshi or the Dark Senshi can manage more.

Is it time for Eve and her original daughters to get their Senshi transformations and attacks, as well, catching up with Ranma's daughters?

As a question, what _are_ Company policies on leave, time off, relaxation, psychological care, and so on and so forth? While the Company may have little experience with brand new succubus brood mothers on combat duty, they do have extensive experience with teenagers who have suddenly become killers and undergoing other assorted stresses; Kasumi, for example.

It's interesting that we're seeing "brood queen" terminology extensively used in Interlude 3 for the first time; that's a more descriptive term than brood mother, which Eve is also (and Nariko would have been if she'd been a little stronger when Akane was turned). That said, wouldn't "brood matriarch" be more appropriate to the species? They don't appear to have all the other trappings of monarchy style royalty, and I think it provides a much more family-oriented... and less "I conquer your lands and enslave your people"... feel; as a contrast to Queen Serenity.

I also ask - the first DarkStar was a Prince of earth; was that Prince also a Mage... and if so, is Ranma remembering magic beyond using someone else's pre-prepared spells, in addition to succubus powers?

If a succubus can summon and unsummon weapons, electronics, and armor, can't they have multiple sets in case of damage? Further, they can, as Nodoka mentioned, change the protection/danage vs. weight balance very quickly and repeatedly. For a non-flying succubus, even a smaller armored vehicle weapon like an M242 25mm Bushmaster would be practical (perhaps on a bipod, perhaps hand-held; 120ish kg isn't _that_ much more than their current equipment sets must weigh). A Russian 2A42 30mm cannon is also around 120ish kg, and the 2A72 (fixed fire rate, not selectable, and less moving parts) is only 90ish kg. Any of these would be very much in the line of treating the combat cyborgs like a vehicle (or punching through Minako-armor), not a person, and all of them support dual feed for two different ammunition types (a "normal" HEI or armor piercing, and an anti-NH, for example).

And I'll hold out hope that the combat cyborgs can be turned into Ranma's daughters or granddaughters; her brood needs some trained professionals, as well.
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Re: The Return [R.5 SM]: Interlude 3 "Down Time"

Postby Sunshine Temple » Thu Oct 20, 2011 5:51 pm

[Some really good thoughts here.
[I try to address them as much as I can without spoiling.

The Company was reputed to have two other NH units still active (Ch. 23); yet the Brood's equipment appears very strongly to be the first superhuman strength semi-custom/small manufacturing run weaponry the Company has had. That said... are the other two units going to be trained on these?
[It's the first with modern technology.
[WIC does quite a bit of small/custom manufacturing. Consider that that standard WIC arm (the HOG) is purely custom, though in far larger lots.
[That said, one of the active units does not have superhuman strength. If anything that unit's member(s) has slightly below average human strength (though human strength varies such that that's a bit mooted).
[That's the Second I believe.
[The other active unit (4th I think) has somewhat higher strength (far higher stamina), so that group is more inclined to simply augment the existing WIC kit. Which is rather heavy, as the much maligned HOG is testament to.

Similarly, Blacksky visited her granddaughter of 10 years, Yohko, and encouraged her to visit Ranma, who is in much need of a discussion with a more experienced succubus, especially as she is the eldest and the cornerstone of her brood.
[Indeed.
[That's also a good way to obliquely bring BlackSky and her plans back into the picture.
[Also that BlackSky can write to Ranma about Yohko's visit, and that Yohko and her spawn are registered with WIC will prevent unpleasantness at a first meeting.
[Recall that the last cousin Ranma met was Alexia.
[We'll be seeing more of Yohko and her daughters.

I still like the discussion with the Vatican rep and the Sister of Purity; another one without Usagi present would be truly interesting.
[Heh, they are a good faction to look into.
[We will be seeing them again too.

As far as Murdock's little present in Interlude 3; after a re-read I still don't find Ranma's torturing and eating the punks to be terribly odd. The whole eating aspect was put to bed many, many chapters ago; that's a nonissue. Torturing was handled by Ranma's helping Eve out on Murdock, not long ago; again, if it wasn't odd there, it's not odd here. The 3 punks as a treat is little more to Return's Ranma, to my mind, than countless other fanfics showing a much less altered Ranma trolling for street trash for their money and/or killing them (Mahoranma includes a highly altered Ranma, but also one that eats being capable of intelligent speech) as appropriate.
[As far as I can see the problem was on "threat proportionality"
[Where despite their intentions, those punks lacked the capability.
[I agree that Ranma has long crossed the Rubicon with regards to eating and torture.

Now, the _real_ question about Murdock's gift is the fun bit; Eve appeared to be focussed on the pin, and apparently wasn't thinking that Murdock was also probably behind the high school incident, which brought Ranma the succubus into deadly combat for the first time. The real trap here might be Murdock's present bringing Ranma the succubus into some of the hunting habits of her species for the first time; prior to this, she was engaging in combat first, not hunting first. The pin or the flesh may have a trap, but it's probably a throwaway if there is.
[The Interlude has shown that Ranma is also getting more into another type of succubus hunting.
[And yes, Murdock has been trying to shape Ranma since day one, though that has gone a *mite* off the rails for him.
As always, I'm looking forward to Ranma teleporting... perhaps to the Moon to scavenge before the Main Senshi or the Dark Senshi can manage more.
[The moon is quite a bit of distance.
Is it time for Eve and her original daughters to get their Senshi transformations and attacks, as well, catching up with Ranma's daughters?
[It's nearing there. I have Morgan's abilities lined up.
[Still thinking on Eve and Morrison's and Sophie's (but she's younger).
[As for Senshi transformations that is basically accomplished by Ranma's replacing the "standard" Succubus Seifuku with Nodoka's design.

As a question, what _are_ Company policies on leave, time off, relaxation, psychological care, and so on and so forth? While the Company may have little experience with brand new succubus brood mothers on combat duty, they do have extensive experience with teenagers who have suddenly become killers and undergoing other assorted stresses; Kasumi, for example.
[Yes the Company does have a system in place.
[I've been remiss in not showing more (or much of any) of it.

It's interesting that we're seeing "brood queen" terminology extensively used in Interlude 3 for the first time; that's a more descriptive term than brood mother, which Eve is also (and Nariko would have been if she'd been a little stronger when Akane was turned). That said, wouldn't "brood matriarch" be more appropriate to the species? They don't appear to have all the other trappings of monarchy style royalty, and I think it provides a much more family-oriented... and less "I conquer your lands and enslave your people"... feel; as a contrast to Queen Serenity.
[I went with queen partially for the sovereign and conquering nature.
[as a brood queen does control a group of subbroods and is basically a chieftain of a tribe that has carved out a territory.
[I also picked it over matriarch because queen is a shorter word as a pure stylistic choice

I also ask - the first DarkStar was a Prince of earth; was that Prince also a Mage... and if so, is Ranma remembering magic beyond using someone else's pre-prepared spells, in addition to succubus powers?
[Not much of a Mage no.
[Though succubae can learn and expand their magical powers.

If a succubus can summon and unsummon weapons, electronics, and armor, can't they have multiple sets in case of damage? Further, they can, as Nodoka mentioned, change the protection/danage vs. weight balance very quickly and repeatedly. For a non-flying succubus, even a smaller armored vehicle weapon like an M242 25mm Bushmaster would be practical (perhaps on a bipod, perhaps hand-held; 120ish kg isn't _that_ much more than their current equipment sets must weigh). A Russian 2A42 30mm cannon is also around 120ish kg, and the 2A72 (fixed fire rate, not selectable, and less moving parts) is only 90ish kg. Any of these would be very much in the line of treating the combat cyborgs like a vehicle (or punching through Minako-armor), not a person, and all of them support dual feed for two different ammunition types (a "normal" HEI or armor piercing, and an anti-NH, for example).
[This goes to the question of just how much can put in "storage".
[Both in terms of mass and volume. Also how much would mass be reduced while in storage?
[The Senshi transformation and innate succubus ability (see hiding wings, tail, horns, ect) give a fair bit of leeway.
[So far I'd go with being able to snap from "civilian" mode to full kit.
[One can readily see the utility of selectively activating parts of the kit (succubae can have just horns or tail) for mobility or handiness or storing extra munitions.
[Misako and Morgan have immediate advantages on that regard.
[I'm not sure they have the strength and endurance to go quite to that size in heavy weapons.
[The limit there is probably handiness of weapon and endurance of the succubus and not as much raw strength.
[That said Morgan's gun is an anti-material rifle and Morrison did use a man-portable version of an M2.
[Such a 30mm weapon could be the succubus equivalent of a crew-served. Where you have two that carry the weapon, support mount, and ammunition.

[For adaptive armor, do plan to have some adaptive coloration aspects and some adaptive thickness/weight.
[However the latter is rather complicated. And would be more energy intensive in how many simultaneous bits of armor could one succubus hold.


And I'll hold out hope that the combat cyborgs can be turned into Ranma's daughters or granddaughters; her brood needs some trained professionals, as well.
[Heh, cybernetic components versus the succubae's healing abilities would lead to some complications.

[Great thoughts
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