Balance of Force, opening

[Vasey]

Basically a lightsaber is a bar of restrained energry and DOES have a little trouble cutting through some materials and is completely stopped by others such as Cortosis ore used in the construction of sith blades. Therefore a chi sword like Ryoko's for instance or chi enhanced lightsaber resistent metal WOULD be highly effective. Wikipedia also says that one of the Witches of Dathomir was able to deflect 2 strikes from a lightsaber with a Force-charged wooden staff. Didn't know that.
This would probably suit Ranma more, as he could have a set of lightsaber resistent Tonfa and possibly even reinforce them with chi/ the force. After all it can't be too easy to just knock someone out with a saber.

Cortosis is the most misused material in all of the Star Wars EU. It's gone from being a miserably weak thing that can, by some obscure interaction, cause a feedback loop that makes a lightsabre shut down to being used in armour and weapons, which is akin to making body armour out of a slate composite. It's just lazy writing, stuff that was introduced because the people shovelling out the cash-ins couldn't deal with writing Jedi as they are in the films. I will forever despise Bioware for using the excuse of cortosis ore and personal shields to turn KOTOR into Baldur's Gate in space.
Anyway, the ability to charge weapons with the Force has not been seen in the Jedi order since the times of Exar Kun as I recall, which is, hmm, four thousand years before the films. And deflecting two strikes is wondeful and all but what happened with the third? Anyway, Ranma won't be learning how to do that from TPM era Jedi and the ki enfused weapons from the manga are blatantly not strong enough. The most impressive feat we've seen from them is cutting through stone and Ranma thought that was impressive. Lightsabres can cut through blast doors that are designed to stand up to space travel in case of a hull-breach given a little time. It doesn't match up.
And your logic is faulty as all hell. Because material X can hold off a lightsabre for a little while, a chi blade can stand up to a lightsabre. You're linking two things together without even bothering to try and connect them logically.
Lastly, a plain old lightsabre's still vastly more efficent than any of these ideas anyway. Why waste ki charging up a weapon when you can just use a lightsabre?

[antimatterenergy]

No not really you can have a polite Ranma and still be in character. Ranma is generally polite to people he just met but becomes rude because of how the people he meets act. If you do something dumb or offend Ranma in some way he will be rude but if your polite and don't do or say anything that upsets Ranma he'll be polite (will just make a comment first few times but becomes generally rude if they continue to act that way.) ex. Ranma was polite when he first met the Tendo's and when Ryoga first came, Ranma is polite to Kasumi and Cologne. Ranma is even polite to Ukyo and Shampoo most of the time. Ranma will also be polite if he is trying to manipulate you.
Ranma not having a light saber can be an advantage in several ways as well. If fighting someone with a light saber they will be confident in their weapons ability to take on Ranma's seemingly weak weapon. Blocking a light saber with a staff or something will give a moments suprise to the opponent in which time Ranma can knock them out or disarm them. Ranma's weapon when dropped would just be a normal weapon of signifigantly less danger to Ranma where as if someone got his light saber and knew how to use a light saber they could use it against Ranma.
The weapons in Ranma when strengthened do not seem to retain the persons ki when dropped and they aren't exactly wasting energy becuase you could probably call the used ki back into you.
Cutting through stone or wood is not really that impressive to Ranma since he can make perfect cuts in both materials with his bare hands. See the story arc in which Ryoga is trying to have both Akari and Akane in his house. Ranma cuts a perfect circle from the wall with his hand.

[MageOhki]

In order from last (if I don't reply to one, assume it's becasue you're debating something with someone else)
Dragon: unlikey.
DCG: You know my plot, bad!
Bissek: It's unlikey that Ranma WOULD win a pure hand to hand fight.
Reach, size and raw power would do Ranma in. Really #@$@# the Wookie up, though...
Dragon: We... shall See about HK...
Bissek/DCG: Re the Jedi code: Colonge could follow it, Kasumi could. Ranma could to a degree (he already has part of it down.)
The code outside emotions, is acutally a pretty simple rule of thumb, nothing more. It's avoiding passion that's the big bit, and when Ranma enagaes the Soul of Ice, passion and emotions go away...
OTHER aspects of the Jedi _TRADTIONS_ Ranma will snicker at (and they're not completely followed even in the movies, See Corellia's Jedi)
To be honest, Ranma would fit in better with the NJO, but, since most of the post RoTJ Expanded Uni I dislike...
And oh, yes. Poor Yoda.
Khortez: Depends on the Jedi, really. Do some research on Mace Windu, in fact. Learning to _control_ his emotions will be the biggest battle (and is what will keep Ranma from Knight status for a _long_ time)
The Jedi remind me irrestablity of the Vuclans. They didn't _quite_ get the point. Control, not deny. Ranma's already HAD some emotional control training. What the HELL do you think the Soul of Ice is?
The rest of the Code is pretty much stuff Ranma already does to a limited degree, just needs to be expanded on.
DCG's right about Ranma being a Sith. Ranma just DOESN'T retain anger, greed, hate, etc. He _DOES_ NOT HATE.
He doen't STAY angry, hell, even before the fight's OVER he's already forgiven people.
For ALL of Genma's screwups, he _DID_ do that right.
While yes, there's a way to get Ranma to fall, it's bloody difficult, and to be honest, most Sith would consdier it a waste of time.
Alathon: WRite it. Ranma's going to stay Light in my fic.
Neko: In the fic, you're pretty much right regarding the difference between ki and chi. Still, Eilsa WILL beat several emotions out of Ranma. There's a difference in being content with your achivements, and knowing you're good, and the sheer Ego Ranma has.
Ranma's pretty much anti Sith, yeah.
Urm, Neko... I'm WRITING that story.
Waruiko: Sorry that you feel that way, but _I_ can't see Ranma falling.
And yes, Eilsa has case personal examples to show just _WHY_ using emotions is _BAD_ to fuel the force/ki.
Ranma IS NOT STUPID. just _foucsed_ and ill trained in a lot of areas.
To all those who think Ranma won't make a good Jedi.
"WHICH Jedi?" The strict rules following anal retentive Yoda type? #@$@# no.
Mace, New Jedi Order, Sunriders... oh, quite easily.
Remember, there's three distinct orders of Jedi, really, in the expanded EU, and even _AT_ THE TIME OF THE MOVIES, there were several different strains of Jedi.
Re: Ranma's manpiluations (Agreed, I've commented on that Ranma is a ideal kunoichi type _already_ for Gaijin) However, _WHY_ does he do it, is a _good_ quesiton. Me? he's trying (as proven by the Reversal jewel) to keep people around. Boy's bloody insecure.
Vasey's Right about a lightsaber. Ranma's will be as quirky as she is.
UberJugla: Ranma will have Lightsabers. EOS!
B_Omega: ON that, Yoda will agree with you. Not all. There's a MAJOR difference you're all missing.
Ranma is _FIVE_ years old again. The brain is radically DIFFERENT at that time. While yes, Yoda will think excatly that (he's a anal little bastard!) the difference between Ranma and Anaikin is radical.
Ranma doesn't stay or keep anger. Doesn't hate. Very in GENERAL laid back personality.
MUCH easier to "point in the right direction" than Anikian was. Sure the boy's stubborn as hell, but for all his skills at manpulation (consdering who he was targeting, 'hough) he's QUITE mallable in his own right. And to be honest, at 5, Ranma's going to be even easier to train correctly.
Re the master comment: Oh, Eilsa will get him to do so. Of his own volition. He never calls anyone in the MANGA master, becasue A. he doesn't respect them. Or B. he's never agreed to be their student over a period of time.
Last but not least. Ranma IS going to be trained as a Jedi. Accept it.
*sheesh* I've got basic plans for at LEAST 300k+ words.
Andrew

[GenocideHeart]

Why not have Ranma be like Revan? He was what most call a 'Grey Jedi' - one who does not outright reject emotions and passion, but doesn't let them dominate him either.
Revan was the best of both worlds - Sith and Jedi. Ranma is already on the right road to be like him. There's no need to mess him up with senseless Jedi rules and regulations (whih he wouldn'0t follow anyway).
Hell, even the road of a Dark Jedi fits Ranma better than Pure Jedi. Dark Jedi aren't necessarily evil, just not very moral.

[UberJugla]

Fair enough MageOhki was just putting a few points across to support the idea that one wasn't needed if you want to go that way... Is it gonna have a funky handle? Or change colours?
[quote="Vasey"]And your logic is faulty as all hell. Because material X can hold off a lightsabre for a little while, a chi blade can stand up to a lightsabre. You're linking two things together without even bothering to try and connect them logically.[quote]
Sorry mustn't have made myself understood properly. Cortosis... Its there, can't really uninvent it. Its probably the alloy form that gets your goat. All of a sudden it could be stuck in swords... armour and all kind of things and just protect/ stop the saber as opposed to kill it like the brital ore did. At least the ore was faily useless being easily smashable.
As for my logic. I meant that some materials would slow the cutting action of the the saber down while others would stop it alltogether.
The chi blade thing I mentioned was because of what a saber is. Its a bar of energy... Ryoko's chi/ energy sword... is a bar of energy. Depending on how focused the user is, its not entirely impossible to imagine the chi blade being equal in strength to the saber.
Ug... can't quote...

[MageOhki]

GH: Umm... note I pointed out the Sunriders and Mace, not to Mention the NJO (most of whom DEFINATLY qualify as Grey Jedi)
Both of which would be light grey at best (Mace USES the darkside to a degree, folks.)
As stated BEFORE: There are _SEVERAL_ "subtypes" of Jedi.
Not to mention 3 or 4 times the Order's differed on the way it's behaved regarding things. Remember, Namoi Sunrider was not only MARRIED, but had a _CHILD_ before beginning training, and her husband was a Jedi.
Re: Revan. *snigger* *bwahhahahahahahaha* Let's just say...
BWHAHAHAHAHA! (Ahem.)
Ranma will be a Grey Jedi, more or less. Dark... no. He _DOES_ have morals... and dark Jedi == Sith without training according to the EU. (Pretty much, the only difference between a Dark Jedi and a Sith, is a Dark jedi has fallen, but no sith around to train him as a sithy.)
UJ: Oh, it'll be... unquine. I'm playing with a few ideas still.
(that's at least 2-3 chapters away)
Andrew

[Pale Wolf]

if Ton or Face got out of hand with there remarks Ranma would fight them

They are doomed to pain.

Well, the ones I've read just want an excuse for Ranma to go apeshit, execute most of the Ranma 1/2 cast, and force choke Akane.

CoughcoughDemonGodofChaoscoughcough.

I think to do a good Ranma-as-Sith story, it'd have to focus mostly on Ranma being a Sith who's "not with those guys", trying to make his way in the universe with both the Jedi and Sith gunning for his ass.

Just to be a stickler for terminology... 'Sith' would require him to be trained in that order, so I presume you'd mean a darksider.

Ranma as a Sith privateer/bodyguard/bounty hunter and general Cowboy Bebop style adventurer would make a pretty good dark comedy, I'd think, with lots of opportunity for asswhoopings, mayhem, and the best of plans going pear-shaped. The Star Wars universe is a big place, and has plenty of space for adventures that aren't pinned on the canon characters' adventures.

(Had an idea like this on the backburner for months)

I will, however, attest to it's danger, I'm not sure if it's fannon, but I seem to have heard that using emotions to manipulate ki in Ranma 1/2 causes one to become sort of addicted to that emotion and more prone to it, and I'd theorize that Happosai and Cologne both ended up shrunken and shrivled because of using emotionally tainted ki (lust of Happosai and soul of ice for Cologne).

Fanon. Common fanon, although I have no idea why anyone bothered to come up with it. An explanation for why they never used the Shi Shi Hokodan-type attacks after that arc?

I can not see Ranma as a Sith or a Jedi and I never really liked the idea behind them.

Bleh. That's part of the reason I mostly left Star Wars behind - it's too much of a 'those guys are ultimate good, those other guys are ultimate evil' kind of universe to be either realistic or interesting to me.

a ki-reinforced chunk of wood won't stand up to a lightsabre.

Says who? You're telling me a solid object reinforced by the binding powers of the universe is weaker than thin air with a laser running through it?

the rule of two means that the Sith only recruit the best.

(Would really rather ignore those atrocities... uh, movies) But I really don't think this is the right place for me to get into that kind of rant...

Wikipedia also says that one of the Witches of Dathomir was able to deflect 2 strikes from a lightsaber with a Force-charged wooden staff.

Heh, been too long since I've read those books.

Sabers have slide or dial on them that lets you change the strength of the blade. on it's low setings geting hit will knock you out and hurt like mad, but not kill.

Some do. These things are custom-made, they hardly have uniform specs.

One thing i wonder is that, in this story, is jedi lightsaber skill can be seperated with jedi force power? That is, it is possible to be a lightsaber master, without mastering the force?

I'd consider that a given. A lightsaber's a bloody stick, and you don't have to be a Jedi to carry one around. Although without Force abilities, you are giving up the ability to see the future and all that funky spacial perception stuff.

Anyway, the ability to charge weapons with the Force has not been seen in the Jedi order since the times of Exar Kun as I recall, which is, hmm, four thousand years before the films.

Barring the self-taught witches of Dathomir?

For ALL of Genma's screwups, he _DID_ do that right.

(Would pass that off as unintentional)

[MageOhki]

Pale Wolf: It might have been intentional, might not. We don't know.
However, balanced with the REST of his screwups (legions!)
Nuff said.
Andrew

[Pale Wolf]

"We are Genma's parenting skills, and we are... singular."

[bissek]

There's a good chance the Council would refuse to train Ranma despite his potential. The bit about "too old" really meant "old enough to ask questions before he is fully indoctrinated". The council of SW Ep 1 was a pack of idiots, Yoda included. They couldn't have done a better job of driving Anakin to the dark side if they tried. They're worried because a 9 year old boy away from his home and family for the first time in his life and is being tested by total strangers in a subject he doesn't understand, the results of which will determine what he does with the rest of his life, is afraid? I'd be more worried if he wasn't nervous. Shuffling the responsibility of teaching an ex-slave whose teacher died to the teacher's previous apprentice like an inheritance was another phenomenally stupid move. How could people who read minds do something so blatantly dumb?
The "There shall never be more than 2 Sith at a time" rule was created due to the fact that the Sith order collapsed after Exar Kun died. Most of his followers killed each other while trying to seize control of their order without the Jedi needing to do anything. Darth Bane, the sole survivor of the argument, started that rule to ensure that all further schisms would be one-on-one duels with the survivor taking over the order.
Cortosis is the only known natural defense against a lightsaber, but the original description pretty much states that it is useless against anything else (Claiming it can be alloyed is a cheap shot. If it could be alloyed easily, Palpatine would have alloyed it into the wall paneling of his fortress rather than having a solid foot of the ore built into the walls). In order for cortosis armor to be useful it would have to be three layer. One layer of ablative armor for blasters, one layer of more traditional armor for physical weapons, and one layer of cortosis armor for lightsabers. The cortosis layer would have to be the innermost or middle layer to protect the cortosis from the other types of attack. Such armor would be to bulky to be practical for most people.
There are two reasons a lightsaber is considered a Jedi weapon only. 1: Since a lightsaber cuts through most everything without resistance, you have to be a Jedi or master swordsman to use one without accidentally cutting off a limb. 2: The Jedi went through considerable effort to keep non-Jedi from knowing how to make them. Some of the novels go so far as to claim that you need to use the Force to properly integrate the parts together for the lightsaber to work right (others claim you just need the parts and the schematic). All Jedi are required to HAVE a lightsaber, as making one is part of the process for becoming a Jedi Knight, though it's likely that some of them never used one outside of training. Fun fact: According to one of the SW novels, weapons scanners identify lightsabers as electric shaving razors.
As for the comment about Ranma giving away to much of his past in the prologue, a Jedi could easily project an emotional state that would make Ranma trust her and feel talkative without using the full mind control. That technique seems borderline darkside to me. If you want an example, look at the anime HunterXHunter when Irumi used a similar technique on his brother Killua and said "You are a killer". A few minutes later, Killua killed somebody for no logical reason.
Ysalimiri were known in days of the Old Republic. It's just that they were only known by Jedi, who avoided their home planet, and smugglers who based their operations of Mrkyl so they could avoid Jedi. It was the fact that Jedi avoided this planet when it wasn't too isolated from everywhere else that led Thrawn to rediscover the ysalimiri.

[Pale Wolf]

How could people who read minds do something so blatantly dumb?

There is still a force greater than the Force.
The scriptwriters.
It gets really bad when they're hacks.

All Jedi are required to HAVE a lightsaber, as making one is part of the process for becoming a Jedi Knight, though it's likely that some of them never used one outside of training.

It's an initiation. A ritual, more than anything relevant to actual development.

Fun fact: According to one of the SW novels, weapons scanners identify lightsabers as electric shaving razors.

It's also easy to disguise them as wrenches, ie hydrospanners!

[MageOhki]

I got the _DISTINCT_ impression that the Concuil _couldn't_ refuse Qui Gon directly. He had Obi Wan, and so they used THAT to stomp his plans of training Ani.
Eilsa doesn't have a Padawan. That removes that. I also get the direct impression that Obi was telling the concuil and Yoda he was training Ani, not seeking approval.
Yoda _will_ try to disassade. Mace... not sure. Eilsa will laugh in their faces, 'hough.
The _real_ thing Yoda had was "anger". 'Much'. Ranma doesn't have that.
Re: The concuil. TDT!
Re the 'emotional' state projection. Dead on, dead on. And yeah, it _DOES_ border on the darkside. Something the Jedi won't admit.
^_^
Andrew

[MC80a Liberty]

How could people who read minds do something so blatantly dumb?

There is still a force greater than the Force.
The scriptwriters.
It gets really bad when they're hacks.

Exactly, many of the EU authors are incapable of dealing with the sheer scale and status of the inhabitants and technology of the SW universe, and, as a result end up writing total drivel ( four ISDs threatening the galaxy? Three million clonetroopers? ). At least Allston manages to write interesting dialogue in spite of some failings on technical details and focuses heavily on his generally well-written OCs.

snip
... and dark Jedi == Sith without training according to the EU. (Pretty much, the only difference between a Dark Jedi and a Sith, is a Dark jedi has fallen, but no sith around to train him as a sithy.)

Not really, the Sith are a specific group with a specific ideaology and their own traditions, whereas a dark Jedi is merely a former Jedi fallen to the darkside, although it's sometimes used as a label for generic darksiders with no Jedi training as well.[/quote]

[Mitchell]

I will, however, attest to it's danger, I'm not sure if it's fannon, but I seem to have heard that using emotions to manipulate ki in Ranma 1/2 causes one to become sort of addicted to that emotion and more prone to it, and I'd theorize that Happosai and Cologne both ended up shrunken and shrivled because of using emotionally tainted ki (lust of Happosai and soul of ice for Cologne).
***
Fanon. Common fanon, although I have no idea why anyone bothered to come up with it. An explanation for why they never used the Shi Shi Hokodan-type attacks after that arc?

I think it came about as a way to get hte Ranma cast using pure-ki i.e. ki without emotional focuses. In other words some 'wise' sensei tells Ranma about he danger of using emotional tainted ki and gets him to use ki using willpower or something. It is also a way to reconcile the fact that Happosoi and Colone are only two feet tall after using the erergy for either One hundred or three hundred years (either Manga or Anime, I think), while other wise Martial Artists can be similarly aged and not shrunken. Used mainly in crossovers as you will notice.
Another point common to fanfiction fannon is the fact that pure ki is either more potent or more easily manipulated then emotional fueled ki.

[Khortez]

Once again, my knowledge on Star Wars is pretty limited to the movies and some random books that weren't complete trash. I assumed that there were only Jedi, and that anything else was Sith, didn't even matter if they were evil or not.
The Soul of Ice was to control his emotions, but the Jedi ways seems to be to always be like that. Ranma only uses it for a single attack, and not for anything outside that, at least that I can remember clearly.
Does anyone have any good recommendations for books to help raise my awareness of the Star Wars world?