Untitled Ranma/Naruto crossover fic (New: Ch. 23 to 32)

[Sailor Sedai (Ellf)]

Wow Fog3, you don't like Ranma much, do you?

I'm not going to argue about Ranma's capabilities namely due to the fact that they are rather inconsistent. Ranma has come up with techniques on the spot and ends up not using them again.

Ranma does _not_ throw around Moko Takabisha like they're Kamehameha. He does use the Hiryu Shouten Ha several times in the manga, and it's usually to end his larger fights or to set them up for the end.

Is Ranma skilled? Yes, but his skill is limited by the lack of description that Takahashi is able to give.


Three techniques that Ranma consistently uses:

Kachuu Tenshin Amaguriken: Speed increase, power increase due to multiple hits to same area.

Hiryu Shouten Ha: (And variants) Usually his be all, end all attack. Giant Tornado.

Mokou Takabisha: Confidence powered Ki blast.

However, techniques alone are not why Ranma wins the fights he does. He wins the fights due to the fact that he will have a better fight strategy than his opponent. Though often he could probably end his fights earlier than he does.

[toushin]

[/quote]This really makes me question if you've ever actually seen the manga for the events in question.

In the hiryu korin dan ranma performs the spiral motion of the hiryu shoten ha while radiating cold chi. This causes the accumulated overflow of herbs chi in the air to form a funnel. Herb not noticing this radiates cold chi to counter ranma’s technique. When the two meet ranma is launched into the air. While in the air ranma shoots a spiraling blast of cold chi into the funnels center, in effect making the excessive hot energy forcefully draw into the vortex of cold energy, all of which is fired straight at herb.
Now the hiryu hyo toppa ranma channels chi into his frozen fist and drives it directly into saffrons tenka shunmetsu koukyuu dan. Like the hiryu shoten ha the pressure difference, from the collision of hot and cold, forms a tornado. But since there is so much heat the tornado becomes highly concentrated squeezing into a razor edge. The refined technique froze saffron’s lower body in ice.

Now lets say instead of the tenka shunmetsu koukyuu dan the Katon: Goukakyu no Jutsu is fired at ranma now the hiryu korin dan has shown us that ranma can fire a blast of cold chi, but what if instead of firing it he gathers the cold chi into his fist and drives it into the Goukakyu no Jutsu. Now theoretically this should produce the same effects as the hiryu hyo toppa only weaker.

Now you were saying.


Now in closing I like to say to Fog3 that if you read any ranma fanfic or go to any ranma website that says more about the style other then its name you will more or less get the same description I gave. Obviously all of those people saw the same thing I did.

[Vasey]

Chapter Twenty-Three
Chapter Twenty-Four

I forgot to update the thread when I got my last draft ready, but now it's two for the price of one.

[Nekomata-sensei]

Something I'd note is that by some time after Herb and before Saffron Ranma's soul of ice and moukou takabisha no longer seem to require certain emotions. He went through quite a bit of emotional states against Saffron while maintaining a cold aura for instance, and I wouldn't say that was entirely thanks to the Gekkaja. I'd assume this is just getting to the next level of skill in ki manipulation. Emotions likely still affect his ki, he'd probably produce a hot aura if he got enraged and didn't clamp down on his ki control at the same time, but he can control his ki how he wants despite his emotions by the time he faces Saffron, at least by appearance, it is never explicitly revealed, and I suspect that it had more to do with Takahashi not caring much about the whole emotions/ki thing.

Anyway, I'm glad to see new chapters, but the two of them together seem about the length of a single chapter, unless there is stuff missing that is getting cut off from each somehow and I'm not getting the pages loaded right. I don't like the broody attitude of the chapters, no matter how much it fits, so I hope Ranma at least compartmentalizes his emotions soon to recover some of his old attitude unless seriously reminded of the situation or Orochimaru appears before him or someone brings up the topic of Anko or something.

Finally, in order to bring in more Naruto characters, even if it made the chapters a bit longer and weirder by following each of the ex-team Anko separately, I think it might be a good idea to separate Ranma, Ryoga, and Mousse into different positions in Konoha. Ranma seems to be leaning towards some kind of teaching position, along with soradic high rank missions, Ryoga needs to team up with some sort of skilled swordmaster who can tutor him in order to learn to use Anko's blade, and Mousse seems like an excellent candidate for ANBU, especially if you count his pulling out a mask this chapter as foreshadowing. Keeping them on the same team limits their usefulness due to how little they get along, they'd just have to make sure their new team-mates are familiar with the curses and keeping Ryoga from getting lost.

On the other hand, it might be amusing for Ryoga to get lost soon and wind up in one of Akatsuki's or Orochimaru's bases by accident and wreak some havoc after getting provoked before finding his way back to Konoha by accident in a way that befuddles pursuit, and makes the enemy fear some new super teleportation jutsu that randomly locates enemy bases on the premise of being enemy bases and allows cheap free retreats, possibly superior to the 4th's Hiraishin or whatever weirdo technique is used by Madara.

Also, I'd like to see some investigation by Konoha into the neko-ken, more recent chapters of Naruto have proved there are jutsu arts to enter people's mindscapes and read memories, and training methods to establish defenses against this that even low level ninja are often taught, and it is likely they'll at least enter Ranma's mind to establish some particulars about what the neko-ken is capable of if not cure it or discover it is some sort of demon partly sealed in him by accident or something. I wouldn't put it past the 3rd or Jiraiya to even be able to seal it if it is a demon, although not as well as if they'd sealed it in to begin with, but they'd at least increase Ranma's ability to use the neko-ken's energy and keep from falling under it's control, although he'd need to also learn to resist the fear better in that case.

And yes, if chakra and ki are basically the same thing, even if used a bit differently, heck, even if chakra is significantly different and follows different rules, it should be a bad idea to use fire techniques against Ranma as he should be able to use the directional Hiryuu Hoyuu Toppa (sp?) he developed against Saffron on them, plus nearly immune by combination of cold aura use and some benefits of the phoenix pill. Ranma has the ultimate counter to fire techniques, and his use of it should have only improved with his recently gained wind manipulation skills. Ranma also can, and does, develop effective new techniques on the fly to use in battle, and often effectively, such as the riding down the ki in the HSH against Herb and gathering up the ambient ki in order to form a big blast along with it, some of the more advanced tricks he used later in the battle with Saffron, the 'shooting star kick' he used against Taro with the elasticity of the pantyhose, and surprising Kuno with the watermelon on the head to make him hit himself again and restore his memories. Few of these techniques utilize sudden new abilities, just use of the conditions of the battlefield to his advantage to increase the effectiveness of techniques he already has, but they are still worthy of being counted as new techniques and technique counters and developed on the fly. An equivalent sort of trick against a ninja might be in the eventual battle vs. Orochimaru, Orochimaru uses a Rashamon gate and Ranma yanks the gate out of the ground (weighs way less than the giant boulder onna-Ranma put in the Orochi's mouth, Ranma's strength is comparable to if not greater than Tsunade, even if Ryoga's strength is probably greater, or less controlled, than Ranma's) and smacks Orochimaru with the gate as if it were a giant flyswatter ('Rashamon Crusher!' ).

[toushin]

a great way to get ranma out of his funk is to have him meet itachi. i suspect that ranma acting this way becuase orochimaru has proven he isnt immortal. think about it every time someone was kidnapped or in danger no matter who it was or what he had to do he always prevailed. with anko dead he sees himself as a failure and he wont be able to redem himself and her eyes untill he kills orochimaru and meeting itachi and his Mangekyo Sharingan will allow his mind to refocus itself.

[Cheb]

I tried to find something to nitpick on, but it's too smooth and solid, I just slid off.

Other than that, I like the tone of your story, the characters not being white and fuzzy and cuddly towards each other.

[Vasey]

Something I'd note is that by some time after Herb and before Saffron Ranma's soul of ice and moukou takabisha no longer seem to require certain emotions. He went through quite a bit of emotional states against Saffron while maintaining a cold aura for instance, and I wouldn't say that was entirely thanks to the Gekkaja. I'd assume this is just getting to the next level of skill in ki manipulation. Emotions likely still affect his ki, he'd probably produce a hot aura if he got enraged and didn't clamp down on his ki control at the same time, but he can control his ki how he wants despite his emotions by the time he faces Saffron, at least by appearance, it is never explicitly revealed, and I suspect that it had more to do with Takahashi not caring much about the whole emotions/ki thing.

Ranma 1/2 was always quite inconsistent about things. I'm sticking with the general rules for now.

Anyway, I'm glad to see new chapters, but the two of them together seem about the length of a single chapter, unless there is stuff missing that is getting cut off from each somehow and I'm not getting the pages loaded right.

I tend to prefer short chapters and a rapid turnaround on them. That's been somewhat scuppered in recent months by a much-slowed writing pace and by my intersection with canon for the Chuunin Exam arc bloating the average chapter size upwards dramatically, but I want to get back to that now. So you won't be seeing many of the 10,000 word plus beasts from me anytime soon, hopefully. I want to get back to the days when I was rattling off a shortish chapter a week and keeping up a nice pace in both writing and the story.

I don't like the broody attitude of the chapters, no matter how much it fits, so I hope Ranma at least compartmentalizes his emotions soon to recover some of his old attitude unless seriously reminded of the situation or Orochimaru appears before him or someone brings up the topic of Anko or something.

This story arc should see Ranma get some catharsis through violence when he gets his hands on some of Orochimaru's minions. Then things will settle down a little. I'm not a big angst-fan, writing or reading, and it's one of the things slowing me down now, but I can't really avoid the impact that what's happened would have on Ranma. Anyway, this is one of the things I want to partially resolve in this story arc along with Ranma's relationship with Hitomi (never going to be entirely free of awkwardness all things considered, but it had to be addressed) and some other bits and pieces that will show up in the next few chapters.

Finally, in order to bring in more Naruto characters, even if it made the chapters a bit longer and weirder by following each of the ex-team Anko separately, I think it might be a good idea to separate Ranma, Ryoga, and Mousse into different positions in Konoha. Ranma seems to be leaning towards some kind of teaching position, along with soradic high rank missions, Ryoga needs to team up with some sort of skilled swordmaster who can tutor him in order to learn to use Anko's blade, and Mousse seems like an excellent candidate for ANBU, especially if you count his pulling out a mask this chapter as foreshadowing. Keeping them on the same team limits their usefulness due to how little they get along, they'd just have to make sure their new team-mates are familiar with the curses and keeping Ryoga from getting lost.

They're not going to be in each other's pockets forever but, for now, I'm keeping them together. When they do split the primary focus will remain with Ranma as lead character.

On the other hand, it might be amusing for Ryoga to get lost soon and wind up in one of Akatsuki's or Orochimaru's bases by accident and wreak some havoc after getting provoked before finding his way back to Konoha by accident in a way that befuddles pursuit, and makes the enemy fear some new super teleportation jutsu that randomly locates enemy bases on the premise of being enemy bases and allows cheap free retreats, possibly superior to the 4th's Hiraishin or whatever weirdo technique is used by Madara.

That's an amusing idea to use with minor villains but I won't be doing anything like that with Orochimaru or the Akatsuki. I don't want to upset the uber-villain applecart with too much Ranma 1/2-style humour. It's more like the story arcs with Herb and Saffron where, once things got serious, they largely stayed serious. Doesn't mean I won't be sprinkling on the cheap humour, but it probably won't be closely related to Orochimaru or the Akatsuki.

Also, I'd like to see some investigation by Konoha into the neko-ken, more recent chapters of Naruto have proved there are jutsu arts to enter people's mindscapes and read memories, and training methods to establish defenses against this that even low level ninja are often taught, and it is likely they'll at least enter Ranma's mind to establish some particulars about what the neko-ken is capable of if not cure it or discover it is some sort of demon partly sealed in him by accident or something. I wouldn't put it past the 3rd or Jiraiya to even be able to seal it if it is a demon, although not as well as if they'd sealed it in to begin with, but they'd at least increase Ranma's ability to use the neko-ken's energy and keep from falling under it's control, although he'd need to also learn to resist the fear better in that case.

The neko-ken really isn't important enough to warrant that sort of attention. Ranma only slips into it when he wants to or when he's massively over-stimulated and even then it's aware enough to not gank allies.

(weighs way less than the giant boulder onna-Ranma put in the Orochi's mouth, Ranma's strength is comparable to if not greater than Tsunade, even if Ryoga's strength is probably greater, or less controlled, than Ranma's) and smacks Orochimaru with the gate as if it were a giant flyswatter ('Rashamon Crusher!' Laughing ).

I have to disagree on that. Ranma is damned strong - ridiculously so when he just cuts loose and throws all he has at someone - but Tsunade is a whole other level of craziness. That boulder example was underwater; Tsunade could do that as-is quite easily.

[Vasey]

a great way to get ranma out of his funk is to have him meet itachi. i suspect that ranma acting this way becuase orochimaru has proven he isnt immortal. think about it every time someone was kidnapped or in danger no matter who it was or what he had to do he always prevailed. with anko dead he sees himself as a failure and he wont be able to redem himself and her eyes untill he kills orochimaru and meeting itachi and his Mangekyo Sharingan will allow his mind to refocus itself.

That's not a bad idea, throw Ranma into a situation so incredibly dangerous that he's forced to get his head back in the game, but it's not quite how I intend things to play out. It's not too far off, though.

[Vasey]

I tried to find something to nitpick on, but it's too smooth and solid, I just slid off.

That's quite the compliment. Thanks.

Other than that, I like the tone of your story, the characters not being white and fuzzy and cuddly towards each other.

Ha, yeah. I just have to be careful it doesn't end up like BSG with everyone hating everyone and it being utterly dysfunctional.

[toushin]

I used itachi because I can see ranma going to odds with the uchiha and sharingan in general. Ranma really hates when people get free power ups, often resulting in him stooping to extremely petty and deceitful things because of it. A great example would be the super soba noodles and the battle-dougi. The sharingan is the epitome of what ranma hates. The sharingan allows the user to comprehend the attack of an opponent almost before the attacker knows what attack they are making. The Sharingan also allows the user to see the flow of chakra within a person, but to a lesser extent than the Byakugan. Every other clan with a blood limit has either a central fighting style or techniques helps the limits. The only thing universal about the uchiha are katon which anyone with enough skill and training can do. They don’t have to train in either fighting techniques or styles. All they seem to do is build themselves on the strength of them. Even the Mangekyo Sharingan requires you to kill your best friend and eventually a rip a fellow clan mens eyes out. Sasuke is the perfect example from the moment he became a genin everything was given to him. Kakashi’s raiton jutsu, the curse seal, and finally absorbing orochimaru. His battle with itachi was a joke, with his brother letting him win and then we find out that he never really learned anything with orochimaru because after itachi got rid of him sasuke could no longer use his techniques. You could see how ranma would be discusted by people like this.

On a second note nothing seems to get ranma out of depression then learning a new technique. It worked with the cat tounge and it worked with the moxibustion, and learning how to effectively counter the sharingan would be the perfect pick me up for ranma. I can just picture him leaving the hospital with a big grin after surviving the Tsukuyomi and eventually turning the anything goes into a style that resembles shun leep from the gold digger comic.

Finally ranma would most likely become tsunades pupil first to get a one up on kabuto and second because even though he may be physically stronger then her her striking techniques would make him giddy and lastly because she’s a sannin she would know the most about orochimaru.

[Vasey]

I used itachi because I can see ranma going to odds with the uchiha and sharingan in general. Ranma really hates when people get free power ups, often resulting in him stooping to extremely petty and deceitful things because of it. A great example would be the super soba noodles and the battle-dougi. The sharingan is the epitome of what ranma hates. The sharingan allows the user to comprehend the attack of an opponent almost before the attacker knows what attack they are making. The Sharingan also allows the user to see the flow of chakra within a person, but to a lesser extent than the Byakugan. Every other clan with a blood limit has either a central fighting style or techniques helps the limits. The only thing universal about the uchiha are katon which anyone with enough skill and training can do. They don’t have to train in either fighting techniques or styles. All they seem to do is build themselves on the strength of them. Even the Mangekyo Sharingan requires you to kill your best friend and eventually a rip a fellow clan mens eyes out. Sasuke is the perfect example from the moment he became a genin everything was given to him. Kakashi’s raiton jutsu, the curse seal, and finally absorbing orochimaru. His battle with itachi was a joke, with his brother letting him win and then we find out that he never really learned anything with orochimaru because after itachi got rid of him sasuke could no longer use his techniques. You could see how ranma would be discusted by people like this.

Ranma hates free power-ups when other people them. He's a competitive little bastard and he doesn't like people suddenly getting massively stronger than him for that reason. I'm not so sure he'd object to a free power-up if it were handed to him rather than Akane or Ryoga or Kuno or whichever of his rivals it was for that particular chapetr.

I definitely agree that he wouldn't be a fan of the Uchiha if he knew their horrid little ways, but who would be? The whole thing with the mangekyo is just repulsive.

On a second note nothing seems to get ranma out of depression then learning a new technique. It worked with the cat tounge and it worked with the moxibustion, and learning how to effectively counter the sharingan would be the perfect pick me up for ranma. I can just picture him leaving the hospital with a big grin after surviving the Tsukuyomi and eventually turning the anything goes into a style that resembles shun leep from the gold digger comic.

Mmm. Well, I have plans for Ranma. I'm leaving it at that for now.

Finally ranma would most likely become tsunades pupil first to get a one up on kabuto and second because even though he may be physically stronger then her her striking techniques would make him giddy and lastly because she’s a sannin she would know the most about orochimaru.

Well, you've guessed pretty much exactly where that one's going. Except I don't think Ranma's stronger than Tsunade. Or even close to it. Still, you've got one of the reasons why he's going to end up as a medic-type.

[pspinler]

he's going to end up as a medic-type.

Blink. Blink.

Ranma as a medic type? Well, that's something I didn't expect. I can only think of a couple of good fics that had Ranma specialize in medicine. Sweet! And as both Tsunade and Kabuto show, medic nin != wimp.

It doesn't take much to see Ranma as a chakra control freak. He can be really obsessive about practicing when he wants to be, and things like the rising dragon ascension and umisenken could easily be interpreted as very demanding ki control exercises.

My only other plot comment is to wonder what our favorite renegade Huuga recovered from her father's quarters, and how much trouble Ranma and Konoha will be in because of it.

Thanks Vasey, and good fic!
-- Pat

[Nekomata-sensei]

Medic-nin Ranma? Yeah, that is cool! Very cool! And somehow Ranma seeking out and getting the tutoring of a sannin in order to fight Orochimaru fits, and Tsunade seems the best one for him, since he isn't the sort to tolerate Jiraiya due to the girl-curse and Jiraiya being a 'super pervert'. (He learned more from Cologne than Happosai) But you should know I thought that it would actually be harder and require _more_ strength to move the boulder underwater, and the girl form is indicated to have lower physical strength.

But yeah, I can see how becoming something of a counter to Kabuto and developing anti-Sharingan skills would appeal to Ranma and be a good way to get rid of most of the angst and brooding for now.

The reason I'd kind of like to see the neko-ken dealt with is I was hoping Ranma would wind up mastering it and then deciding to supplement it by getting the cat contract from Hitomi in some sort of deal with her, perhaps where she is requesting some really cool technique or forbidden style like the Umi-Sen-Ken in order to surpass the main house, and exchanges the chance to sign the cat contract for it, because the idea of S-class Ranma with cat summoning and mastered neko-ken appeals to me even more than the idea of a medic-Ranma, and both combined would be ultimate coolness. But then again, it is your fic, and your writing is good enough I don't care if you take the suggestion or not.

[toushin]

chakra and ki are basically the same thing only chakra is build up over time and the hand signs are used as a trigger to focus it. while ki is focus by the will, becuase of this most of the things ranma, ryoga and mouse has done would be considered a kinjutsu especially Moko Takabisha and shi shi hokudan. think about it a focused ball of chakra that's not only formed outside of the body but fired in a blast. anyone else besides then would drop dead trying to pull something like that. the only reason naruto didn't is because his chakra reserves are so high and even then he couldn't properly form it. tthis also means that eventually the new techniques they invented woun't need hand seals making it harder for people like kakashi or sasuke to copy them.

i would really like to see what seals or restraints designed to absorb chakra would do for them. while there are alot of people on naruto who have high chakra reserves. the process of regaining that energy once its used is very slow. however ranma and ryoga are able to absorb the energy around them which is the only reason i can think of for ryoga to be able to fire multiple perfect shi shi hokudan (or even one) witout keeling over. so seals and restraints that absorb chakra might help them gain more control over their ki more then hinder them.

those three are the leafs perfect weopons they already have numerous impossible to perform techniques, and superhuman endurance and strength, to other villages they might seem like gods

[Vasey]

chakra and ki are basically the same thing only chakra is build up over time and the hand signs are used as a trigger to focus it. while ki is focus by the will, becuase of this most of the things ranma, ryoga and mouse has done would be considered a kinjutsu especially Moko Takabisha and shi shi hokudan. think about it a focused ball of chakra that's not only formed outside of the body but fired in a blast. anyone else besides then would drop dead trying to pull something like that. the only reason naruto didn't is because his chakra reserves are so high and even then he couldn't properly form it. tthis also means that eventually the new techniques they invented woun't need hand seals making it harder for people like kakashi or sasuke to copy them.

You're reading far more into Naruto's hackjob attempt at a ki attack than was meant. He simply has shithouse control and couldn't manage it without brute-forcing the whole thing. It's no different to how he managed to get by his inability to perform the rasengan properly by summoning up a helping hand to stabilise the technique for him. Someone with more advanced skills would be able to perform the technique properly.

i would really like to see what seals or restraints designed to absorb chakra would do for them. while there are alot of people on naruto who have high chakra reserves. the process of regaining that energy once its used is very slow. however ranma and ryoga are able to absorb the energy around them which is the only reason i can think of for ryoga to be able to fire multiple perfect shi shi hokudan (or even one) witout keeling over. so seals and restraints that absorb chakra might help them gain more control over their ki more then hinder them.

Ryoga is just a beast. Remember what he did to the Musk he was fighting? Phsyically the strongest fighter in the entire series by some margin and Ryoga's aura was strong enough to render the guy immobile after he had his little vision. He is frighteningly powerful when he gets worked up. Even Kisame probably doesn't have enough chakra to match Ryoga in raw brute force.

But Ranma and Ryoga do have immense amounts of chakra compared to the average ninja. It's part of how I fudged the worlds together. The Ranma-world never discovered the utility of handseals in martial arts techniques so they went a different, much more difficult path to achieve similarly ends. This leads to a much lower number of people using those fancy techniques in the Ranma-world but a much greater level of raw power among those who can manage it. Ninja have more versatility - a much easier time to learning techniques - but on average they're far less powerful than the average commited Ranma 1/2 martial artist.

those three are the leafs perfect weopons they already have numerous impossible to perform techniques, and superhuman endurance and strength, to other villages they might seem like gods

But I wouldn't go that far. Ninja, at the high end, get plenty ridiculous in their own right. People like the sannin can manage an incredible level of overkill.